Baron: I probably skip the line where you wrote about kate moss refreshing personality, sorry about that, I really didn't see it in your essay. Yes I do believe beauty is in the beholder because is true, example: You found Behati attractive, I don't, I see a little 10 yr old boy when I see Behati, and you can't change that because that is what my eyes see. I don't care if you think who ever I found attractive you find them ugly because is a matter of taste. I went to school today and brought a picture of Kate Upton and Lindsay, out of 45 guys I ask today at school only 1 guy said Lindsay is more attractive the rest of the 44 guy said Kate, so yes the majority of men find kate more attractive.

Jennka: Yes beauty is not measured by curves/bigger @ss or breast, I do found a lot of skinny woman beautiful I could make a list of them: Mila Kunis is skinny and I found her extremely gorgeous, also Natalie Portman. their is not wrong to be petite. Lindsay is skinny so is Chanel, Miranda, Erin and Lais, Lilly, Behati, I just think there is too many skinny angels lately, would love to see a curvy model to model VS too, they are attractive too, there is nothing wrong to be curvy. I am not saying they are ugly because they are skinny because I don't think they are ugly Lindsay looks like a barbie doll, Chanel is a pretty girl but to me she looks like 14 maybe i was exaggerating when I said 10, I assume you guys would know what I meant but obviously you guys took it literally, I meant to say they look youg, like little girls or teenager, I found Erin and Lais extremely beautiful woman and they are skinny. according to me they are just to much skinny models for VS, I want to see diversity too, which I agree with you, I want to see some Asians models like Jarah Mariano she is sexy and different compare to the recent models to much blondes and skinny, I also want to see some red hair too which agree with you also on that, I also want to see more model with freckles, and of course I want to see curvy models too.

frenchkiki I have seen a lot girls at the age of 10 looking like miranda

I just hate when people consider only skinny woman pretty and consider curvy woman fat, I really hate that, and this is one of the reason why anorexia and bulimia exit.

I just feel VS is making curvy woman feel bad and making them think been skinny is sexy and better, and this why they are so many anorexic woman in this world because brands of company are only hiring skinny model to model for them, and giving the appearance I am model I am skinny I am better than you. Which is not true, Curvy woman could be sexy too.

I am petite woman I am only 5'2 with hips and a medium waist, I am C cup breast, and I have a medium butt, is not big but is not small either. but yeah I am not going to stop eating just to look Erin.

for me the ideal body is Josie Maran body, I really love her shape. She is very sexy to me.

My definition of Sexy is Josie Maran, Alyssa Miller, Kate Upton, Catalina Otalvaro, Bodine Koehler Pena, Candice Boucher, Catrinel Menghia, Kim Kardashian, Megan Fox, Charlize Theron, Olga Kurylenko I found this women very very very sexy. I found a lot of other women very sexy too but I am not going to mention them because is going to be a long list.

is better to drop it here this conversation because we probably never going to stop about this argument, because I could go on and on and on and on, never agree with each other, because we all think different.

.

Glad to see something different for VS

VS needs to make her an angel. look at her hip, now those are nice hip.

And they also need to make Barbara Palvin an angel.

I went to school today and brought a picture of Kate Upton and Lindsay, out of 45 guys I ask today at school only 1 guy said Lindsay is more attractive the rest of the 44 guy said Kate, so yes the majority of men find kate more attractive.

^I applaud your thorough empirical research and it's resulting statistical proof...

You can say "majority" all you like, just DON'T say "all", because it's wrong: I'm a man and you don't speak for me. That's my point.

You found Behati attractive, I don't, I see a little 10 yr old boy when I see Behati, and you can't change that because that is what my eyes see. I don't care if you think who ever I found attractive you find them ugly because is a matter of taste.

^Nor would I do so, and I never have here.

If you see a "little 10 yr old boy" when you see Behati though, then I suggest there's something amiss with your eyesight or the kids in your environment. I'm in no way saying you should like her in any sense, or "change that" as you say - but I do baulk at this description and what you're implying:

1. Behati looks like a 10 year old boy
   
2. I like Behati
   
3. Ergo - I like 10 year old boys
   

I trust you don't mean this? <_<

sorry I though you were female, I did not read your avatar info. I am actually in shock for a man to find behati attractive, I have never knew a man that is attractive to behati, you are the first man that I know that likes behati. The men that I know likes Kim Kardashian, Megan Fox, Jessica Alba, Jennifer Lopez, etc, etc.

and no there is nothing wrong with my eyesight. that is the way I see behati.

Well if this helps your prospective more...I too am attracted to Behati

all I could say is beauty is in the eye of beholder. done arguing with everybody.

and no there is nothing wrong with my eyesight. that is the way I see behati.

^Must be the environment then... I think the blame lies with processed foods, and estrogenic compounds in the water supply. Either way the abundance of 5ft 11in 10 year old boys with breasts should be cause for concern for the locals?

and no there is nothing wrong with my eyesight. that is the way I see behati.

^Must be the environment then... I think the blame lies with processed foods, and estrogenic compounds in the water supply. Either way the abundance of 5ft 11in 10 year old boys with breasts should be cause for concern for the locals?

why can you just move on, you already know how I feel about behati, to me she looks like a boy end of discussion.

Wild flower I agree with certain thing u said and yes VS needs to use more models with curves that's for sure. But Behati is not looking like a boy. Her body is the one of a woman. Not your taste and I perfectly understand that but she is not looking like a boy.

why can you just move on, you already know how I feel about behati, to me she looks like a boy end of discussion.

^I guess I will (although simply stating "end of discussion" when it suits you isn't exactly how such things work!), as it's fruitless to continue with somebody who has singularly failed to address either of the points I was actually arguing with you about - and, instead, is determined to erroneously focus on the right of "personal" opinion (which I agreed with anyway) whilst simultaneously making sweeping statements about what "everybody" likes and doesn't like!??

I'll just say this, Behati isn't quite the skinniest model they have. And when I was ten, I definitely wasn't 5'10. (I am taller than that now, but I was quite the late bloomer)

Also, I personally like Lindsay, a lot. I hate Adriana with a burning passion. I also like Doutzen and do not find a single thing attractive about Erin. Wanna know why? Because, as a man, even, though I will admit to liking breasticles and how they are displayed, I am also able to look up and to look beyond that. Lindsay has a great personality and a nice smile, Adriana, well, not so much. Doutzen's face is amazing.

I find it extremely reductive that one would assume that I (and most if not all men) only look at a woman's body and, TBH, I'd think women would find that degrading.

The point is Angels are spokesmodels and personality does factor in that equation. And VS went from selling bras to women to selling push-up to teens, so maybe that's why they changed their models accordingly.

Oh and thank you Prettyphile for starting this great conversation...

And she opened the Pandora's box and... Run away!

I do every time and it always gets people's blood pumping, but as I see it controversy and differences aren't a bad thing, and it breaks up the monotony that is Bellazon. Come sit down next to me my love and see what happens next

I actually quite enjoy this conversation :evil: and it´s always nice to see it living up on BZ

Frenchkiki with testicles answer:

Because men are so less tricky in their mind (and this is the reason why I love to work with men). They see something they like and they just like and enjoy. We women, we think "oh she is sexy and beautiful ... yes but! She is too thin and yeah, photoshop! and she has zero butt (ah ah!) and oh she gained weight! Oh look now. She is damn skinny! Pffeew she should wear a bra, no? Not even her real hair color..."

tricky

Bitches

we are!

indeed, this is so true. Btw that´s why I love men so much too

I did not do that, did I?

No, I don´t recall such thing from you

I am not in the majority

You´re never and that´s great too.

Yes but it doesn't mean it is right? We (men & women) do not have to go to the gym because the magazines/tv are telling us to do it? And I think a model promoting lingerie should be more in the "soft" side than the "muscles" side. 6 packs Abdominals aren't sexy for me. It's not feminine. A "soft" body is the perception of what I think is feminine & when I look the VS models (the Angels) I only see muscles and for some bones & muscles and I am absolutely not attracted by their body.

It doesn´t have to mean it is right. No one has to go to gym just because mags are telling us to do so - and on the other hand, I´ve always hated everything mags were telling us to do. But what is right and what is wrong I don´t know - and who knows? I know extremes are bad. Obesity is bad for your health just like anorexy or bulimia is bad for your health. Is exercising bad for your health? The extreme one is, of course. But people should learn to lead the gold middle way of everything - and more than everything - to love themselves the way they are. There is nothing wrong when you want to look better, eat healthier or exercise, but it isn´t obligation, just as long as you feel good in your body and healthy, that´s the most important thing. I don´t like people pointing fingers at other people... no matter if it´s from envy or viciousness (like "You´re so skinny! Look at you!" or "haven´t you gained weight recently? You should really start to exercise"). People will always bitch about something, there is no such thing as "perfection" in this world. And we should damn learn it.

That's exactly what I said^^ More diversity. Fashion should represent every women (modellike of course) and not only one type of girl. And i really think none of these girl we talked about are looking like 10 year olds? If 10 years old girls were looking like Miranda or Behati they will be in troubles in this crazycrazy world.

Yeah, lol I don´t think they look like that either. I too would love more diversity, I just felt like standing up for these recent girls too.

Baron: I probably skip the line where you wrote about kate moss refreshing personality, sorry about that, I really didn't see it in your essay. Yes I do believe beauty is in the beholder because is true, example: You found Behati attractive, I don't, I see a little 10 yr old boy when I see Behati, and you can't change that because that is what my eyes see. I don't care if you think who ever I found attractive you find them ugly because is a matter of taste. I went to school today and brought a picture of Kate Upton and Lindsay, out of 45 guys I ask today at school only 1 guy said Lindsay is more attractive the rest of the 44 guy said Kate, so yes the majority of men find kate more attractive.

Jennka: Yes beauty is not measured by curves/bigger @ss or breast, I do found a lot of skinny woman beautiful I could make a list of them: Mila Kunis is skinny and I found her extremely gorgeous, also Natalie Portman. their is not wrong to be petite. Lindsay is skinny so is Chanel, Miranda, Erin and Lais, Lilly, Behati, I just think there is too many skinny angels lately, would love to see a curvy model to model VS too, they are attractive too, there is nothing wrong to be curvy. I am not saying they are ugly because they are skinny because I don't think they are ugly Lindsay looks like a barbie doll, Chanel is a pretty girl but to me she looks like 14 maybe i was exaggerating when I said 10, I assume you guys would know what I meant but obviously you guys took it literally, I meant to say they look youg, like little girls or teenager, I found Erin and Lais extremely beautiful woman and they are skinny. according to me they are just to much skinny models for VS, I want to see diversity too, which I agree with you, I want to see some Asians models like Jarah Mariano she is sexy and different compare to the recent models to much blondes and skinny, I also want to see some red hair too which agree with you also on that, I also want to see more model with freckles, and of course I want to see curvy models too.

frenchkiki I have seen a lot girls at the age of 10 looking like miranda

I just hate when people consider only skinny woman pretty and consider curvy woman fat, I really hate that, and this is one of the reason why anorexia and bulimia exit.

I just feel VS is making curvy woman feel bad and making them think been skinny is sexy and better, and this why they are so many anorexic woman in this world because brands of company are only hiring skinny model to model for them, and giving the appearance I am model I am skinny I am better than you. Which is not true, Curvy woman could be sexy too.

I am petite woman I am only 5'2 with hips and a medium waist, I am C cup breast, and I have a medium butt, is not big but is not small either. but yeah I am not going to stop eating just to look Erin.

for me the ideal body is Josie Maran body, I really love her shape. She is very sexy to me.

My definition of Sexy is Josie Maran, Alyssa Miller, Kate Upton, Catalina Otalvaro, Bodine Koehler Pena, Candice Boucher, Catrinel Menghia, Kim Kardashian, Megan Fox, Charlize Theron, Olga Kurylenko I found this women very very very sexy. I found a lot of other women very sexy too but I am not going to mention them because is going to be a long list.

is better to drop it here this conversation because we probably never going to stop about this argument, because I could go on and on and on and on, never agree with each other, because we all think different.

.

Why stop it? I think it brings up many interesting opinions and I like good conversation a lot.

First thing, I agree with you on the diversity (and I love Jarah Mariano) just like I said before and more freckles are never a bad thing too You stated many sexy women that are of different body kinds, so I think you got my point

Second thing, I find Behati extremely beautiful, womanly and of endearing and great personality. Of course you don´t have to like her, but to say she looks like 10year old boy is a little bit... exaggerative and it sounds stupid (sorry).

Third thing, I´m not skinny at all and I don´t find VS catalogues abusive or making me feel bad. I like to admire all the kinds of beauty and don´t feel jealous for those body types I don´t belong in. There are many other catalogues in which I found many body types by the way - at least here in my hometown I tell you one thing wildflower and please think about it really deeply. Anorexia and bulimia are illneses that come from wtihin - it´s useless to shame fashion industry for it. These are just excuses for your own defections. My friend suffered from anorexy and through that episode of her life I learned a lot. It wasn´t because of fashion or thin models - it was inside of her, it was a scream that sounded like "notice me! Look at me!". She was ill, her psychic was ill, and all she wanted was attention from her family - and the only attention she got was mine. It took a long time but finally she "healed over" - but the little girl that screams "notice me!" will stay inside of her forever and it has nothing to do with fashion industry. I highly suggest you some Freud works, it´s unbelievable how many neurosis and hysteria originates in childhood and is caused by your own family - including bulimia and anorexia.

People should stop blaming others for their own mistakes and try to dedicate time to their children, and make them feel special and beautiful and learn them to value themselves. THIS is the most important thing. You cannot change the whole world - but you can change that little bit that surrounds you.

I know many won´t agree with me, it´s hard to admit your own fault, and it´s always easier to say "fashion is to blame for anorexia and bulimia!" but the truth is, we have it all in our hands. It´s not like fashion designer is standing by you with gun aimed at your head screaming at ya "Don´t dare to eat it, you small fry!" is it? I´ve been admiring models for years, but never even thought about trying a single stupid diet. I didn´t see a sense in it. I still don´t.

Yes, we read the mags, we see the models, you can argue with me that they create some kind of "image" of beauty - but in the end WE are those who make decisions. That´s important to realize. You cannot blame Harry Potter books for death of a kid that thought it could fly on a broom, can you?

btw Shanina and Barbara are absolutely gorgeous and I love their VS pictures hella lot. And I agree that VS needs more of this and less photoshop!!!

sorry I though you were female, I did not read your avatar info. I am actually in shock for a man to find behati attractive, I have never knew a man that is attractive to behati, you are the first man that I know that likes behati. The men that I know likes Kim Kardashian, Megan Fox, Jessica Alba, Jennifer Lopez, etc, etc.

and no there is nothing wrong with my eyesight. that is the way I see behati.

These are all semi-actresses or semi-musicians and one attention w*ore. We´re talking about models, aren´t we?

Why are we having this discussion again?

VS gives a fuck about little girls with anorexia, not sure? Ask Anja (Y)

They won't fire Lindsay because she's too skinny just as they won't fire Adriana because she can't speak shit in english & they won't contract Kate because her tits are too big.

Do i think VS could use some diversity? Yes, they could. Will they do it? NO, they won't.

Never say never

Always say never, then you're never disappointed and if it does happen it's a pleasant surprise.

I don't think that all men are so attracted by Kate Upton.

There's another online forum that I visit frequently which is dominated by men in their mid-twenties.

But hardly anyone there likes her body. In fact, her appearance is heavily criticized:

People compare her with a linebacker and say she's nothing but big tits and that they aren't even great, but saggy.

Additionally, they complain about her tube-shaped midsection and chicken legs.

Each article about Kate is filled with such comments which are rated positively.

By the way, it's not a fashion community - it's all about the looks of female celebrities from the viewpoint of men.

(Nobody there is interested in high fashion or something like that... This community and its discussions are rather reminiscent of

male friends meeting up at a pup where they talk about sports and the hot booty of the waitress...)

And no, it's not because they wouldn't like curvy women - in fact, the same men love the bodies of Kelly Brook or Jennifer Lopez.

It's just because Kate isn't actually that curvy...

^^I think those people mostly vomit their hate because they have nothing else to do and they know the only chance they will ever be next to kate or any other models, will be in their bathroom with SI in one hand and their tiny "brain" in the other. They are so used to watch women made with plastic all over the web & magazines that they can't handle a woman with flesh and natural boobs. Kate's boobs saggy? Seriously?