Cult Icon Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 ^^While I think it is important to remember the past and learn from it, I also do believe that people aren't responsible for the sins of their elders. Karlie, VS and the rest of America today have nothing to do with the Native genocide, hardly anybody in Europe is still alive from those who took part in the Shoah and the other genocides that took place 75 years or so ago. They shouldn't have to feel guilty for something they didn't do. If you're a jerk that's your fault. If your ancestor was a jerk, there's not much you can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professional Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Germany has moved forward from the debacle of WWII.For that 1 Native who gets up in arms over this outfit, there's 60 white people who are breaking out the banners and saying it's culturally insensitive. They aren't getting offended because of their culture, white people are getting offended on behalf of their culture because of residual guilt. Move on, get over it.There is a flip side, and that side is total ignorance:I can tell you that in Germany, free speech applies until they suppress all symbols of Nazism and aspects of the crimes of their parents and grandparents. In Japan, knowledge of the crimes of the imperial generation are also suppressed. A lot of this is related to post-war and cold war politics related to the iron curtain.For instance, in Germany today there is a 'good German' meme that is believed by the average citizen- that the Nazis were some sort of 'external force' a type of alien and minority of bad germans that managed to control the majority of good Germans. The worse ignorance, of course, is the belief that the holocaust was the only extermination policy when in fact the bulk of the mass murders were inflicted on Soviet and slavic peoples by men & women without SS runes. By presenting this story to Germans, it partially absolves their nationalistic past by marginalizing the crimes committed in the name of 'der nation'.It is good to present to all historically accurate knowledge of the past and make certain that people understand how the past evolves into the present. It is not good to distort or dehumanize in the service of nationalism or the development of a patriotic, triumphant narrative that distorts the foundations on which the present is built.. But of course, all such related affairs can be exaggerated, distorted and abused for the goals of whatever interested party. Rice bowls to be filled....and filled to the brim until they're overflowing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiya Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Aint Karma a bitch!Not sure I follow you, but sure whatever.I am so tired of culturally sensitive, liberal hippy bullshit that is taking over mainstream media and society. People get offended over the smallest thing these days, stuff that 10 years ago we would have turned the other cheek to, but that of course was ignorance on our part. No it's called not being an emo little bitch about everything and taking it for what it is, a damn costume in a fashion show. Last I checked the long headdresses were worn by males, and there were no animal prints that the Native Americans wore, but hey, let's all shove a tree up our asses and bitch and whine.I'm half Native and I personally didn't find the outfit offensive in the slightest. It was a cute take on a longstanding American tradition, (thanksgiving for everyone who's a little slow) where the pilgrims and the Natives came together).You don't see a bunch of Americans crying over the fact that Lily let the stripes of her flag hit the ground even though you could see she was trying her damnedest not to let it do so. But you don't hear anyone crying fowl over that. You don't see the Wiccans/Celtics/Pagans getting up in arms over the little witch outfit Behati wore. Or how about the Irish getting upset over the little "luck of the Irish" outfit Hilary wore. Or how about the Jews getting upset over Barbara's Santa outfit. Or jumping over to pink and Sharam's little cowboy outfit. Half my family is probably rolling over in their grave, but you don't see me pulling out the burning torch and starting a "witch hunt".The point is everyone needs to stop crying over every small slight they can possibly find and just grow up and move on. Point in case the geisha outfit that VS removed because a blogger got offended, and now this. Perhaps people need to stop over dramatizing their own culture and stop looking at everything as an actual personal attack. (Y) totally agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cult Icon Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 What the hell is this ridiculous statement? Have YOU ever been to Germany? How many Germans do you know personally? I don't want to derail this thread, so let me just tell you that we know our history and the atrocities commited during the second world war. Many Germans still feel a lot of guilt about this part of our history and I've never met anybody who thought the Nazis were some alien small minority. Nazi symbols are forbidden to prevent modern Neonazis from using them.Sorry, I disagree. To me all of that is German lip service. I've lived in Germany and I know many, but that's besides the point. I can say that Germans don't know it very well and aren't too insightful about their own matters regarding the activities of their governmental services in eastern europe. Their views are much different from the Russian view, I can tell you that much. Their popular views also diverge much from the academic historian view. Americans are also very ignorant, but that's more reasonable- it wasn't our show.If you are so offended, feel free to pm me about this matter but otherwise let the passion, if it so arises not, as you say, 'derail'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkCouture Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I don't think that one has been posted Who is the model @ 1:39? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiya Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 edit: I have a lot to say about the native americans, and white people. But I am going to bite my tongue and shake my head . I don't want to get in trouble here an get of topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkCouture Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 all about the native american topic is that they are the truth american, they are more Americans that the white people. white people came from Europe and kill the native american and call themselves Americans. WOW! I think this is one of the rare times you actually made some sort of logical sense. Kudos to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandleVixen Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 It's a Lily Pad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle16 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I am astounded by the amount of cultural insensitivity and ignorance or even perhaps ARROGANCE.If they feel that way. They are entitled to it. VS OBVIOUSLY knows what they did was wrong, because they issued an apology and are taking the costume out of the CBS airing.Just because you think it's silly, doesn't mean it's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkCouture Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I am astounded by the amount of cultural insensitivity and ignorance or even perhaps ARROGANCE. If they feel that way. They are entitled to it. VS OBVIOUSLY knows what they did was wrong, because they issued an apology and are taking the costume out of the CBS airing. Just because you think it's silly, doesn't mean it's right. +1 (Y) Like I said in the second part of my post here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzymisslizzy Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 It's a Lily Pad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professional Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 What the hell is this ridiculous statement? Have YOU ever been to Germany? How many Germans do you know personally? I don't want to derail this thread, so let me just tell you that we know our history and the atrocities commited during the second world war. Many Germans still feel a lot of guilt about this part of our history and I've never met anybody who thought the Nazis were some alien small minority. Nazi symbols are forbidden to prevent modern Neonazis from using them.Sorry, I disagree. To me all of that is German lip service. I've lived in Germany and I know many, but that's besides the point. I can say that Germans don't know it very well and aren't too insightful about their own matters regarding the activities of their governmental services in eastern europe. Their views are much different from the Russian view, I can tell you that much. Their popular views also diverge much from the academic historian view. Americans are also very ignorant, but that's more reasonable- it wasn't our show.If you are so offended, feel free to pm me about this matter but otherwise let the passion, if it so arises not, as you say, 'derail'.Since you think you know exactly how every German feels and are therefore able to make a sweeping statement that generalizes 80 million people, I don't think I have anything left to say to you. We will agree to disagree.Just because you think it's silly, doesn't mean it's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenobarbie Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I am astounded by the amount of cultural insensitivity and ignorance or even perhaps ARROGANCE.If they feel that way. They are entitled to it. VS OBVIOUSLY knows what they did was wrong, because they issued an apology and are taking the costume out of the CBS airing.Just because you think it's silly, doesn't mean it's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle16 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I am astounded by the amount of cultural insensitivity and ignorance or even perhaps ARROGANCE.If they feel that way. They are entitled to it. VS OBVIOUSLY knows what they did was wrong, because they issued an apology and are taking the costume out of the CBS airing.Just because you think it's silly, doesn't mean it's right.Are you Native? Or are you the group lining up behind the Native who's offended and waving the banner saying it's culturally insensitive?I think this is the important point. If there are Native Americans who feel offended, then they should remove the outfit from the tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenobarbie Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Oh bloody hell, the sarcasm has obviously gone well above your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cult Icon Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Since you think you know exactly how every German feels and are therefore able to make a sweeping statement that generalizes 80 million people, I don't think I have anything left to say to you. We will agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professional Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I am astounded by the amount of cultural insensitivity and ignorance or even perhaps ARROGANCE.If they feel that way. They are entitled to it. VS OBVIOUSLY knows what they did was wrong, because they issued an apology and are taking the costume out of the CBS airing.Just because you think it's silly, doesn't mean it's right.Are you Native? Or are you the group lining up behind the Native who's offended and waving the banner saying it's culturally insensitive?I think this is the important point. If there are Native Americans who feel offended, then they should remove the outfit from the tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkCouture Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Since you think you know exactly how every German feels and are therefore able to make a sweeping statement that generalizes 80 million people, I don't think I have anything left to say to you. We will agree to disagree. Feelings are just....feelings. That is true, but that doesn't mean they are invalid compare to thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cult Icon Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 That is true, but that doesn't mean they are invalid compare to thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenobarbie Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I am astounded by the amount of cultural insensitivity and ignorance or even perhaps ARROGANCE.If they feel that way. They are entitled to it. VS OBVIOUSLY knows what they did was wrong, because they issued an apology and are taking the costume out of the CBS airing.Just because you think it's silly, doesn't mean it's right.Are you Native? Or are you the group lining up behind the Native who's offended and waving the banner saying it's culturally insensitive?I think this is the important point. If there are Native Americans who feel offended, then they should remove the outfit from the tape.Well hot holy damn I'm Wiccan and I had a few family members in the Boston area and I seriously found that outfit that Behati was sporting incredibly offensive. I know millions of my people didn't die, but it was a pretty big atrocity for it's time. Shouldn't VS pull that outfit too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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