And of course you have other articles but may I point out that these have rather economic interests related to them (like a plastic surgeon) :

Stating that men prefer larger breasts

Fair enough.

Besides...all these studies are based on a Western point of view since breast size seems to be less of an issue in other cultures.

Good point . Though ironically the men's magazines with the biggest requirements are in Europe I think, those being the increasingly popular Nuts and Zoo Magazines ect. where DD if not slightly more are average size for their models. Large bosom is also becoming increasingly popular in Japanes men's mags too...

But to explain where I got my statement from here some sites:

One site

Another site

Another site

The first two also don't seem to mention how many men were surveyed to form said opinion and the third is an anonymous online poll, so women can also vote...

You do not need to explain scientific research to me Joe. I'm perfectly capable of doing that myself thank you. It was just that I was too bored to go explain a simple fact other people could also just look up.

My stand that the number surveyed makes a survey valid is just my general stand. The capability of said person that doesn't provide the numbers has nothing to do with it .

Besides, stating your first argument and then trying to base a claim based on examples is pretty much shooting yourself in the leg.

Well, be they accepted or not, I'll take my chances with examples for my points.

Granted, if we bring up a statement from an external source we should give it and describe the extent of it. What do you do ? You state something and then without giving proof just name 2 people, a porn actress and a what... a singer ?? to define the general attitude towards females. I will not deny that there isn't a market for women with large breasts, like porn industry, but it is not seen as ideal or perfect girlfriend-material (or a fling must be regarded as a girlfriend)

Not only did I not mention porn or music, but whereas I named two names, my example was "women who have fat bank accounts soley based on breast size", which is a lot more than two people . And my point wasn't necessarily to define a general attitude towards females, but to debate whether the original opinion was the general attitude or not based on the fact that it doesn't seem supported by many general things and I don't see a reference to how many were asked. You just assumed because I disagree that my stance is the direct opposite whereas I don't know or claim to know what the average man's ideal is. 1) I don't have an ideal size myself 2) Many women don't even wear the right size or properly fitting bra anyway. 3) Bras vary in padding and breasts vary drastically in shape and density even among the same cup sizes. 4) A lot of men can't accurately and consistently identify bra sizes anyway (partially confounded by 2 and 3. And as to no proof, you have no real proof of what's 'seen' as ideal girlfriend material or not. Not only because many don't even publicly voice their fantasies, but many people's mate isn't necessarily their ideal perfect fantasy in every aspect of looks, but other qualities factor in.

Are you not forgetting that a lot of topmodels, you being an active member of bellazon.com should know, have C or smaller breasts ??

No, I didn't forget topmodels, but since we were talking about breast size, I figured women famous primarily because of their breasts in an industry driven strictly by male popularity was worth a mention. As to topmodels, fashion on the other hand, isn't driven strictly by male popularity as the other is. In fact, appealing to the average man (or even mainstream media) isn't even manditory to have success as a fashion model. You can be very successful as a fashion model and not appeal to the average man at all, so succeding in fashion has nothing to do with the issue of ideal breast size of the average man. There are quite a few models who have been told to 'lose weight because they loook too men's magazine' so that among various other things show that what the average man wants isn't their primary agenda. Fashion is just as much, if not more about appealing to women (who buy said clothes, fragrances ect.) and is definitely more about appealing to standards and demands of designers ect. than what the average man wants.

I don't think I would get them done, I sometimes think it would be nice if i did but i know I would never go through with it. Lol no way I am putting myself through that just to appeal more to others and I learnt to be happy with what I have. A lot of the girls I work with have implants and they look fine. What's really bothering me is the extra fakeness sooooo many women are embracing lately: implants, botox, hair extensions, lash extensions, face fillers, artificial nails, fake tan, lipo... it kinda makes me sad that so many YOUNG women can be so unhappy with themselves that they need to completely change who they really are...artificially....what ever happened to looking good because you are actually healthy, and fit.... I work in the beauty industry and I see it A LOT!!! I know looking good is important but to go to the extent to look good by being someone completely different than who you really are kinda bothers me...there's not much I can do about it I know...and sorry I went there off topic for a bit but I really had to vent....lol

(Y)

Well said!

and i totally agree. I've thought about getting them of course, but i would never actually go through with it. (sometimes i wish i could wake up and BAM they are the size i would like) but thats not going to happen, maybe while preggo but not now. I've learned to be happy with what I have because its my natural body & what I was given. Of course i'd like a lil more boobage but thats life, and i've learned to accept that. People say "it will make my shirts fit better and give me an overall better proportion" but there are other ways to make a shirt look good & fit better, and who set the standard of a "nice" proportion? everyone is different, it just seems now everyone wants to be cookie cutter.

would I ever get a boob job? no

Well, I admit I am a bit insecure when it comes to my looks and if I get older and my now C cup boobs start to sag a lot (I hope it won't get too bad, but who knows how fast gravity works ) I would consider a lift or something of the sort. Then again, maybe at that age I'll be wise enough to accept myself for who I am.

I'm the kind of person who finds something else wrong with myself when I fix something, so I might as well not start at all. For example, I always wanted superlong hair like Paulina Porizkova in Her Alibi (and in shoots). Now that I have my hair touching my hip, I find myself getting annoyed with the few blemishes on my skin (which I totally ignored before) and find myself drinking more water and using masks to clear that up. And probably when that is cleared up I might get irritated by something else, maybe this time something that I can't 'clear up' without resorting to artificial ways. So that's where I draw the line. I try to improve myself through natural ways like exercise, good diet, good care of skin and teeth, but that's it.

Look what happened to Megan Fox! Totally gorgeous before (even though she had some forehead lines and acne scars) but now her face is übersmooth thanks to botox and who knows what else, she just looks less pretty than she used to.

Well, I admit I am a bit insecure when it comes to my looks and if I get older and my now C cup boobs start to sag a lot (I hope it won't get too bad, but who knows how fast gravity works ) I would consider a lift or something of the sort. Then again, maybe at that age I'll be wise enough to accept myself for who I am.

I'm the kind of person who finds something else wrong with myself when I fix something, so I might as well not start at all. For example, I always wanted superlong hair like Paulina Porizkova in Her Alibi (and in shoots). Now that I have my hair touching my hip, I find myself getting annoyed with the few blemishes on my skin (which I totally ignored before) and find myself drinking more water and using masks to clear that up. And probably when that is cleared up I might get irritated by something else, maybe this time something that I can't 'clear up' without resorting to artificial ways. So that's where I draw the line. I try to improve myself through natural ways like exercise, good diet, good care of skin and teeth, but that's it.

Hey Miss Expresso,

@ 5'10, Dutch, scouted by agents, etc... you're probably in the top 1% of women in terms of looks and the other 99% are filled with vary levels of envy..

I never noticed the comment! Sorry!

That's really sweet of you lol I'm going to get a huge ego now

You'll have an ego the size of a small planet and the good stuff around you will soon take orbit :]

i think i already talked about it in this thread. when i was 18 years old i had a boob job because my breast was very malformed. at first i absolutely didn't want bigger boobs but the surgeon told me it was really better for me so i did it. since years i honestly hate that, the fact i know they are here, it disgusts me and makes me sick. i was at the point where i would prefer to remove everything even my real boobs and have a boy breast than keep it, but i can't. and worst there are few days ago (friday) my right breast started to be painful and i had the feeling i had fever and i was near to faint (but since 3 weeks i spend my time to faint) so i spent my day at the emergency. the doctors and nurses spent the biggest part of their time to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes in front of the hospital and to celebrate a birthday party than work and few hours later they suddenly discovered what i though, it means, my prothesis is drilled. now it swells and swells again, my skin start to be painful, no feeling in the tit and now i make a E cup instead of C cup.

and i think it because of it that i spend my time to faint but i'm not actually in a healthy periode... my hips bones are very painful because they are malformed so since i'm kid i often have rhumastimes, my vertebral column is very painful since 3 weeks, i still regularly make my "hypothermia crisis", and since few month my coagulation is very bad. one night, there are a couple of month i've been bitten something like 20 times on my legs/feet by a mosquito and i still have the scars. i NEVER touch them but they look like 20 cigarettes burns and my arms are not better. i look like a junky. we can see all the blood test i had during a couple of months : it means, many! and because of it i didn't gave a f*ck about all these faints but in same time i rarely give a f*ck about my health. so yesterday i spend my day in the clinic of the champs elysées talking with a big superfical fag surgeon who at first didn't notice a difference between my boobs C cup and E cup apparently, this is the same thing... and he asked me if i wanted bigger boobs (my first surgeon also did the same and wanted to put me a D or E cup instead of C. don't ask me why, i don't know) and of course like the first doctor they refuse the repair my breast and said implant is the best things for me (and for them. the medicine i must take against hemophilia cost something like 1000 euros for 1ml and i need many per day during few days) and by the way this kind of suregy should be too huge for me and my body should couver of scars and look like frankenstein, which i don't really give a f*ck about... and when they saw my skin cover of scars they have been a bit scared... so i was near to cry when i learn i should be obligated to keep these horrors in my body.

i even don't wear make up or buy cosmetic and i have these sh*ts in my body. this is so ironic.

anyway, tomorrw i will be operate, again :x

i think i already talked about it in this thread. when i was 18 years old i had a boob job because my breast was very malformed. at first i absolutely didn't want bigger boobs but the surgeon told me it was really better for me so i did it. since years i honestly hate that, the fact i know they are here, it disgusts me and makes me sick. i was at the point where i would prefer to remove everything even my real boobs and have a boy breast than keep it, but i can't. and worst there are few days ago (friday) my right breast started to be painful and i had the feeling i had fever and i was near to faint (but since 3 weeks i spend my time to faint) so i spent my day at the emergency. the doctors and nurses spent the biggest part of their time to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes in front of the hospital and to celebrate a birthday party than work and few hours later they suddenly discovered what i though, it means, my prothesis is drilled. now it swells and swells again, my skin start to be painful, no feeling in the tit and now i make a E cup instead of C cup.

and i think it because of it that i spend my time to faint but i'm not actually in a healthy periode... my hips bones are very painful because they are malformed so since i'm kid i often have rhumastimes, my vertebral column is very painful since 3 weeks, i still regularly make my "hypothermia crisis", and since few month my coagulation is very bad. one night, there are a couple of month i've been bitten something like 20 times on my legs/feet by a mosquito and i still have the scars. i NEVER touch them but they look like 20 cigarettes burns and my arms are not better. i look like a junky. we can see all the blood test i had during a couple of months : it means, many! and because of it i didn't gave a f*ck about all these faints but in same time i rarely give a f*ck about my health. so yesterday i spend my day in the clinic of the champs elysées talking with a big superfical fag surgeon who at first didn't notice a difference between my boobs C cup and E cup apparently, this is the same thing... and he asked me if i wanted bigger boobs (my first surgeon also did the same and wanted to put me a D or E cup instead of C. don't ask me why, i don't know) and of course like the first doctor they refuse the repair my breast and said implant is the best things for me (and for them. the medicine i must take against hemophilia cost something like 1000 euros for 1ml and i need many per day during few days) and by the way this kind of suregy should be too huge for me and my body should couver of scars and look like frankenstein, which i don't really give a f*ck about... and when they saw my skin cover of scars they have been a bit scared... so i was near to cry when i learn i should be obligated to keep these horrors in my body.

i even don't wear make up or buy cosmetic and i have these sh*ts in my body. this is so ironic.

anyway, tomorrw i will be operate, again :x

My "condoliances" for your condition.

Sadly, there are always medical risks, called complications, towards getting surgery done.

Being a medical student myself I would even consider the usage of plastic surgery as MALPRACTICE on a patient, since it's hard to quantify the measure of psychological stress in comparison with the very real risks of complications.

"condolences" i think you meant, though sympathy would be better (you are gonna have one hell of a bedside manner doc)

and baby you have my hoenst sympathy. i cannot imagine the hell you are going through and i feel for you. i hope it all works out in the end. i'll say a prayer for ya.

Is it even POSSIBLE that some actual heart felt emotion can be shown here other than sarcasm? Is it that hard?? I'm sorry baby, I really do hope things get better for you.

Is it even POSSIBLE that some actual heart felt emotion can be shown here other than sarcasm? Is it that hard?? I'm sorry baby, I really do hope things get better for you.

i think you know the answer to that

Is it even POSSIBLE that some actual heart felt emotion can be shown here other than sarcasm? Is it that hard?? I'm sorry baby, I really do hope things get better for you.

I am sorry that through the written word the meaning of my words was misinterpreted. I did not put the "condolences" as part of mockery or sarcasm, but because I was unsure wheter or not saying condolences was really the right word.

No way did I intend any sarcasm

I'm so sorry Baby. I cannot even fathom what you have gone through. I honestly hope you get/feel better!

thanks guys.

oh don't worry aranka, i absolutely didn't take it as a sarcasm.

it sucks but what you want, this is life. A i'm malformed, B i'm hemophilian and my skin is very bad and C this stupid implant fail after near of 6 years. i hate implant, but i'm obligated to wear this.

the fact is, few years after my operation we have discovered that many women who had been operated with implants from the same society often had this kind of problem... in 5 years it's like 10 women for 100 and now the implants are not approved anymore in europe. but this is an american company and in USA they are still approved which is a real shame because if they aren't good for europeen women, i don't think they could be good for the american ones...

will be in surgery in 4 or 5 hours. eurk. hate this idea, particularly when we know my medicine against hemophilia to avoid bleeding always make me very sick (usually it can kills mornal people ). and i don't like my surgeon. when you know he didn't see the difference between a very swell breast and a normal one there is a problem... so perfect when you know he operates people and must make minutious things...

Aw. I'm sorry to hear about this Baby. I wish you all the best of luck.. I hope you get better too.

And I would never get a boob job. My boobs are big as it is.

back at home there is 1 hour ago.

at first they gave me my medicine agaisnt hemophilia and for the first time of my life i wasn't sick at all which is a super good thing! and the surgery was ok. the surgeon had just opened the half of my nipples and they had changed my implants. the fact is, my right breast where we thought the implant was pierced wasn't pierced at all but the silicone sweating through the implant and that's why my boob was so big. and another surprise that the doctors didn't see when i was at the emergency was my other implant, the one from the left breast was pierced! so the both had a problem!

anyway, the surgery was ok and absolutely not painful so i even didn't take the medicine against the pain they gave me. they just allowed me to drink one glasse of water in 32 hours which was horrible but because this time my medicine for hemophilia didn't make me sick so i discreetly gone to the bathroom and i drunk something like 3 glasses of water and i didn't had a bad reaction and i didn't puke the water. and fortunately they didn't notice it because they thought i was trapped in my bed without be able to move. they had been super surprise to see that i even didn't took my medicines against pain.

and this morning i had fever, but since weeks i had the feeling i had fever and i was always wrong so at first i didn't tell you but later i was talkng with my parents and i told them and they had touched my head and said i was hot. they told it to the nurse and then the nurse took my temperature and and had been shocked to see i was 39.3

awesome new Baby!!!!! very happy to hear it

glad you are happy and pain free

'im not "happy" of the result because i would like something i can't have, but the actual result seem to be more natural that what i had which is a pretty good thing

Poor Baby. You have my love and support, as always.

Frederick

no, bad new, in fact they are a little bigger than there are few weeks ago. as i said i have a very bad skin, absolutely not elastic and when my boob sweeled, my skin got worst again and they had been obligated to put me bigger implant.

i actually wear a B cup but this is a medical bra so this is not the same size. now i'm near of the D cup. FML. when they had removed the bandage and i saw the result i was disgusted. hope it won't destroy my back in the future next years.