In 2008 Karolina had like three extra pounds and everyone called her fat and other not so nice things so I just find it very annyoning and hypocrite for people to now ask for diversity after all the shit that was thrown (probably by those same people) to models before for not being perfect. I think overall the standards in the fashion are ridiculous and the fact that Robyn or Crystal Renn who are about the average size for women are considered "plus size" makes want to laugh and cry a little because it's just wrong.

I think it's ridiculous the way VS casts their models but even more ridiculous is to just troll VS about it just because they are VS but other companies get away with whatever they want. After all, VS just follows a standard.

I have a friend who used to work in La Senza (owened by LB so i assume is the same) and what she told me was that they don't usually sell sizes too small (AA cups or XXS) or too big (DD+ or XXL) because they don't sell much and it's a waste of money for them to have them in store. I think VS range from XS to XL is just fine and covers the vast majority of people, otherwise they wouldn't control 35% of the industry would they? Just like being large doesn't mean you are not curvy, it doesn't mean that being large automatically means you are curvy either and as Jennka pointed out the problem here is that some people want to throw "curvy" or "womanly" for cases that are just overweight and such. I've been size 0 or XS (even smaller sometimes) and really short my entire life and finding clothes has always been a bitch for me but I don't go around complaining about it and I don't see anyone campaining for stores to make smaller clothes either.

And as far as fantasy being different for everyone, last time I checked VS didn't force people to buy their shit or watch their show so buying their products, subscribing to catalogs and watchig their show is a personal choice so for those who don't like it and still do it they are just idiots with too much free time in their hands.

But that is the good thing about VS in a sense: other brands have emerged that cater to bigger sizes. Because of them, other brands such as Curvy Kate, Freya, Panache are the biggest sellers for bigger sizes in terms of lingerie; from what I've heard, they are also better fitting. Yes, they are more expensive or not as readily available as VS, but they exist and they sell well.

I think VS could follow the model of Boux Avenue (they have both core sizes and DD+) but I think they fear the complaints they're going to get if they start doing bigger sizes: they're too expensive, they don't fit properly, they're not as pretty as the smaller sizes etc. So either way, VS is damned if they do, damned if they don't. People just like to rip them apart because they are most well-known lingerie brand. Their stuff doesn't always fit me either so I take my money somewhere else.

Fantasies are different for every person, so in your opinion, every guy and girl should aspire to be petite with roughly a 34ish b cup, no ass and long legs. VS does need to diversify, but it doesn't mean going to extremes. You don't need to put a XXL girl on the runway, but even someone like Robyn Lawley, while not my cup tea wouldn't be unacceptable.

 

This.

 

VS caters to ONE fantasy, and if you are not into skinny with small ass and boobs then you are shit out of luck.

 

VS is primarily an American company and there are LOT of bigger girls in America. From a business standpoint, it just seems stupid to me to not try and tap into that market. But beside that, there are HUGE problems in this country with girls feeling like absolute shit about themselves and their body because of how the media and society is telling them they should look, because they're setting an impossible standard. Not every girl can be super tall and skinny and still be healthy. There are only a small percentage of women who can pull off that body type. And it's not like overweight people are the only ones feeling the pressure and being affected. My best friend has like zero fat on her and she's constantly telling me she has to lose weight. That's normal. Low self esteem and eating disorders are just part of the fucking American life.

 

To me, with how big and influential VS is, they are the ones who should be setting the standards -- and they do. They are by far the most popular and well-known premium lingerie brand around. So why the fuck shouldn't they be held a little responsible for how they represent themselves and portray body ideals?

 

I'm not saying VS should start hiring plus sized models for their runway and shit, because runway has always been its own little world, but hiring more girls like Robyn or Crystal  to model in their catalogs would be fucking awesome. 

 

And just because plus sized/bigger/curvier/whatever women don't meet YOUR guys' fantasies does not mean they shouldn't be allowed to buy sexy lingerie and feel good about themselves, or at least not hate themselves. And trying to get better treatment from VS seems like a sensible move because they can draw a lot more attention to their cause than with some other barely-known brand.

^ (Y)

In 2008 Karolina had like three extra pounds and everyone called her fat and other not so nice things so I just find it very annyoning and hypocrite for people to now ask for diversity after all the shit that was thrown (probably by those same people) to models before for not being perfect. I think overall the standards in the fashion are ridiculous and the fact that Robyn or Crystal Renn who are about the average size for women are considered "plus size" makes want to laugh and cry a little because it's just wrong.

I think it's ridiculous the way VS casts their models but even more ridiculous is to just troll VS about it just because they are VS but other companies get away with whatever they want. After all, VS just follows a standard.

I have a friend who used to work in La Senza (owened by LB so i assume is the same) and what she told me was that they don't usually sell sizes too small (AA cups or XXS) or too big (DD+ or XXL) because they don't sell much and it's a waste of money for them to have them in store. I think VS range from XS to XL is just fine and covers the vast majority of people, otherwise they wouldn't control 35% of the industry would they? Just like being large doesn't mean you are not curvy, it doesn't mean that being large automatically means you are curvy either and as Jennka pointed out the problem here is that some people want to throw "curvy" or "womanly" for cases that are just overweight and such. I've been size 0 or XS (even smaller sometimes) and really short my entire life and finding clothes has always been a bitch for me but I don't go around complaining about it and I don't see anyone campaining for stores to make smaller clothes either.

And as far as fantasy being different for everyone, last time I checked VS didn't force people to buy their shit or watch their show so buying their products, subscribing to catalogs and watchig their show is a personal choice so for those who don't like it and still do it they are just idiots with too much free time in their hands.

I agree with everything.

 

Fantasies are different for every person, so in your opinion, every guy and girl should aspire to be petite with roughly a 34ish b cup, no ass and long legs. VS does need to diversify, but it doesn't mean going to extremes. You don't need to put a XXL girl on the runway, but even someone like Robyn Lawley, while not my cup tea wouldn't be unacceptable.

 

This.

 

VS caters to ONE fantasy, and if you are not into skinny with small ass and boobs then you are shit out of luck.

 

VS is primarily an American company and there are LOT of bigger girls in America. From a business standpoint, it just seems stupid to me to not try and tap into that market. But beside that, there are HUGE problems in this country with girls feeling like absolute shit about themselves and their body because of how the media and society is telling them they should look, because they're setting an impossible standard. Not every girl can be super tall and skinny and still be healthy. There are only a small percentage of women who can pull off that body type. And it's not like overweight people are the only ones feeling the pressure and being affected. My best friend has like zero fat on her and she's constantly telling me she has to lose weight. That's normal. Low self esteem and eating disorders are just part of the fucking American life.

 

To me, with how big and influential VS is, they are the ones who should be setting the standards -- and they do. They are by far the most popular and well-known premium lingerie brand around. So why the fuck shouldn't they be held a little responsible for how they represent themselves and portray body ideals?

 

I'm not saying VS should start hiring plus sized models for their runway and shit, because runway has always been its own little world, but hiring more girls like Robyn or Crystal  to model in their catalogs would be fucking awesome. 

 

And just because plus sized/bigger/curvier/whatever women don't meet YOUR guys' fantasies does not mean they shouldn't be allowed to buy sexy lingerie and feel good about themselves, or at least not hate themselves. And trying to get better treatment from VS seems like a sensible move because they can draw a lot more attention to their cause than with some other barely-known brand.

 

A size over 12 isn't and shouldn't be a body ideal. There. Just because a lot of American are overweight doesn't mean that fashion should promote it, let alone as being healthy.

Not saying that everyone should be anorexic or a size 0 either but I think that topic has been appropriately covered by Clauds, Jennka, BlueJasmine et al.

In other news, there's a new Angel in town:

TOMORROW, NYC! Come get your pic with @AngelCandice & @LilyAldrdige at #VSHeraldSquare. http://i.victoria.com/KFt

it that prespective skinny girls should tell plus size brands to do small sizes... i understand all the girls that work for VS look the same body wise, but now saying that VS should make bras for every bust size in the world is ridiculous and a waste of money on their part. they make the general population breast size and what for them sell more. i bet most shoe brands don't make 44(european) shoe size for women, and u don't see women that have that size shoe making a big fuss about it, and hey u can't really lose shoe size, however, there is something u can do about being overweight (which whether people want to admit or not, its unhealthy )

A size over 12 isn't and shouldn't be a body ideal. There. Just because a lot of American are overweight doesn't mean that fashion should promote it, let alone as being healthy.

Not saying that everyone should be anorexic or a size 0 either but I think that topic has been appropriately covered by Clauds, Jennka, BlueJasmine et al.

 

You pretty much missed the point of what I was saying. I never said overweight should be an ideal. 

 

What I was saying was that it's bullshit to only show one body type as ideal. The modeling world only favors super skinny and tall women, and just because it's the norm in the modeling world doesn't mean it's right.

 

There's such thing as a happy medium. Being bigger and curvier does not automatically equate to fucking morbidly obese. It's easily possible to be more than just stick thin and still be healthy. Even if you're saying 12 is the cutoff, VS is still ignoring pretty much every size bigger than a 4.

 

And the overall point I was trying to make is that VS (and no, not just them) should use a wider range of body types.

 

And finally, VS could still sell to plus size women without making it an ideal. 

 

That's all I really have to say on it. No matter what, there are going to be opposing sides to these debates, but this is where I stand.

No offense, but when you look throughout history, there was always ONE body type that was deemed more desirable than others. From the Gibson girl to the flapper, from the pin-up to the waif, there was always one dominant beauty ideal and I'm afraid that's not going to change anytime soon. Sure, there are these body positive movements going on and change is slowly building, but don't expect big companies to follow suit.

 

If we're going to call for diversity in magazines, heck, I would like to see small-boobed girls on the cover of SI, but I know that's never going to happen because that's not the SI ideal. What I'm trying to say is that there's nothing wrong if a company wants to portray its own body ideal.

 

I personally believe body image is taught from an early age and the family should be responsible in teaching their kids enough self-confidence so they don't fall prey in pursuing unrealistic body images later on in life.  

I'd love to get a definition of the plus size customer VS is ignoring, because as far as I know VS sells from XS to XL in panties, bras go from 30A to 40DD and their clothing goes from XS to XL. So exactly what kind of people is VS leaving out? XXS and XXL? Well le shock, that is 99% of companies

No offense, but when you look throughout history, there was always ONE body type that was deemed more desirable than others. From the Gibson girl to the flapper, from the pin-up to the waif, there was always one dominant beauty ideal and I'm afraid that's not going to change anytime soon.

Actually that's completely incorrect. In several cultures and historical time periods, being skinny meant you were lower class because it was equated with not being able to afford food. Voluptuous, curvy women were considered the best cared for and the most fertile. Even into the first half of the 1900's, being skinny was looked down on. Think Marilyn Monroe. She was considered ultimate sexy and she wasn't no twig.

I'd love to get a definition of the plus size customer VS is ignoring, because as far as I know VS sells from XS to XL in panties, bras go from 30A to 40DD and their clothing goes from XS to XL. So exactly what kind of people is VS leaving out? XXS and XXL? Well le shock, that is 99% of companies

The women the article mentioned are likely bigger than XL. I personally was more focusing on the models they choose, since that was also mentioned.

 

No offense, but when you look throughout history, there was always ONE body type that was deemed more desirable than others. From the Gibson girl to the flapper, from the pin-up to the waif, there was always one dominant beauty ideal and I'm afraid that's not going to change anytime soon.

Actually that's completely incorrect. In several cultures and historical time periods, being skinny meant you were lower class because it was equated with not being able to afford food. Voluptuous, curvy women were considered the best cared for and the most fertile. Even into the first half of the 1900's, being skinny was looked down on. Think Marilyn Monroe. She was considered ultimate sexy and she wasn't no twig.

 

^ Interesting note

 

No offense, but when you look throughout history, there was always ONE body type that was deemed more desirable than others. From the Gibson girl to the flapper, from the pin-up to the waif, there was always one dominant beauty ideal and I'm afraid that's not going to change anytime soon.

Actually that's completely incorrect. In several cultures and historical time periods, being skinny meant you were lower class because it was equated with not being able to afford food. Voluptuous, curvy women were considered the best cared for and the most fertile. Even into the first half of the 1900's, being skinny was looked down on. Think Marilyn Monroe. She was considered ultimate sexy and she wasn't no twig.

 

 

What I was saying is that one body type (whatever it was - the hourglass pin-up in the 50s and the 1910s, or the boyish look in the 20s and the 60s) was preferred over others. I didn't say that skinny was always in.

^ Gotcha. I misunderstood, sorry. (:

@Pretty: that video rocks. I'm totally going to send that to a couple of my professors. XD

NO offense but after reading all this I'm glad I am a dude

 

Only era we ever had was having a penis

^ Being a woman can suck at times. You will always be too fat, too thin, too short, too tall, etc. Always too something depending on the person you are talking to. 

 

Best part? It's actually women throwing bullshit at each other 99% of times out of jealousy, boredom or simple being a bitch to the world. It's up to each one to create a healthy self-esteem and IDGAF about what anyone thinks attitude when it comes to your own body because no woman will ever please everyone.

I totally agree with Clauds and foorur, but I have to say I quite enjoyed all the other comments as well, because they all carry a valuable message.

 

From my personal experience everything starts in the family - as for the self esteem and body image - I´ve always been into models and fashion world, but I never even tried to take on some diet regime and never hated my body for not being perfect. As every woman I´m aware there are parts of me I like and parts I do not, and I consider that totally normal. I never had a distorted view of my body. I try to be healthy and fit because I naturally love hiking and walking and feeling good in my skin, but I´m also no model and do not look like one.

 

On the other hand, a friend of mine has always had issues with her body that ended in anorexia - but what she really strived for was attention of her family, not trying to look like a model.

 

Clauds is right, people will always tell you you are "too something" (too skinny, too fat, too curvy, too whatever) but in the end it´s you and your life and you are the one that has to value yourself and respect yourself because no other fucking way other people will respect you if you yourself do not.

 

Heck, we, the model lovers and fans should know it the best, actually - how many times have we thought "why does he/she not like my model? She is SO PERFECT!" and yet there are many others that will NOT find our fav that perfect

I'm a larger guy and always had issues finding clothes that weren't from crappy stores that were cheaply made and bad. But sadly that's all I could find because there isn't much out there either for larger men. It happens with guys too. The issue isn't brought up as much because like Clauds said its a big issue for women. I found it hard to find clothes. So you know what I did. I got off my lazy fat ass and I dieted. Counted calories. Lost 20kg and am still losing more. I'm not saying that every bigger person needs to do that. But as a big guy myself I feel like I can say that. I never blamed everyone else for the fact I ate a lot. It's all on me. I lost weight and now I'm fitting into clothes. It wasn't the brands fault that I can't fit into their clothes. It just bugs me because people want to blame everyone wlse but don't take responsibility for their own actions. Yes there are people who can't help their weight. I understand completely. At the moment im still overweight but I'm working hard. It wasnt to fit in clothes but to be healthy. A little off topic I know but just want to give an overweight guys stand on things.

I don't want to sound like an a*hole. I'm not saying companies shouldn't cater to people on the larger side. But they have their own markets. Maybe there should be more actual brands catered to a larger range at the end of the day.