The Political Correctness Haters' Club

[Enrico_sw]

And the 2016 all-female Ghostbusters that you mentioned is a very woke show.

[SympathysSilhouette]

3 minutes ago, Enrico_sw said:

 

Don't put words in my mouth,. I think Captain Marvel is a poorly written character (from comics to movie).

 

Just like Rey is a poorly written character. But Leia was a great character, Mara Jade was a great character, etc.

 

Being the bestest at everything without trying makes poor characters.

 

But Cap Marvel isn't the only overpowered character?

So do you also hate say Superman then? Or Supergirl?

[SympathysSilhouette]

Just now, Enrico_sw said:

And the 2016 all-female Ghostbusters that you mentioned is a very woke show.

 

The cast is about the only thing I like about it. Especially Kate McKinnon doing a "female Egon" thing.

But it is one of the worst-written movies I can remember seeing. Written by someone who clearly does not care about nor understand Ghostbusters.

 

Before he himself was cancelled for apparently being a sexual predator, Max Landis wrote a good critique of it.

Including the fact that a supposedly "progressive" movie had made the black character the only one who did not have an advanced degree (remember that she worked for the MTA whilst all of the others had a STEM background).

[Enrico_sw]

5 minutes ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

 

But Cap Marvel isn't the only overpowered character?

So do you also hate say Superman then? Or Supergirl?

 

Superman was a poorly written character at first. That's why they invented Kryptonite (and he's still not a very good character IMO - I'm not a huge fan of this franchise).

 

Also, superman actors didn't come out to the press and exclude an entire demographic like Brie Larson did.

[SympathysSilhouette]

Just now, Enrico_sw said:

 

Superman was a poorly written character at first. That's why they invented Cryptonite (and he's still not a very good character IMO - I'm not a huge fan of this franchise).

 

Also, superman actors didn't come out to the press and exclude an entire demographic like Brie Larson did.

 

But this is conflating two things. Your original objection was to the character itself (her and Rey) and not to the actress who portrays her.

 

I haven't read many American comics, but I did read quite a bit of the older Miss Marvel runs (back when Captain Marvel was still Miss Marvel).

The Brian Reed run from the mid noughties. And she was already pretty high-powered even back then.

 

[Enrico_sw]

Just now, SympathysSilhouette said:

 

But this is conflating two things. Your original objection was to the character itself (her and Rey) and not to the actress who portrays her.

 

(It seems that you want to talk about details and things that are not my main point, which IMO makes us avoid the big picture. But don't worry, I'll still answer to your point )

 

Yes, you're right these are two different subjects, though the actress has a significant impact on how a movie is marketed. And woke is part of a marketing strategy, so it's not that disconnected with how a movie is sold.

 

At least, Daisy Ridley is a nice actress, unlike Brie Larson who has very toxic traits in her personality. This has probably discouraged many viewers.

 

Anyway my main point is that woke ruins good story telling (all the rest is literature, as we would say in French). You can add that it ruins the marketing campaign too, if you want, but it's secondary.

[Enrico_sw]

35 minutes ago, Enrico_sw said:

 

There's another thing. You seem to not be bothered by wokeness (I may be wrong, so correct me if I am). You're a reasonable guy who want to do the right thing. So, I don't understand why you tolerated an ideology that judges people on the basis of their skin color and gender, while designating a scapegoat (straight white male).

 

I really and honestly don't get it. Lots of good faith / reasonable people get dragged by this woke trend.

 

(And some of them tend to get violent about it - which is not your case, so thanks for that)

 

 

This post is a key part of my point.

 

It'd be nice to get your feedback (or anyone's feedback), I'm genuinely interested in what people think about it.

[SympathysSilhouette]

I think where we disagree is that I don't really see a woke agenda in a lot of the bad media we are being confronted with.

 

There are reasons for why things are shitty, but I have given my perspective on why I think that is above.

 

I see the direct influence of "wokeness" a lot more in stuff like SISE (MJ's activism through swimsuit issue) than I see it in TV and movies.

 

A good movie is a good screenplay adapted to the screen by an able director, who marshals the various departments to create something special.

But I am not overly preoccupied with the exact nature of the story or who the cast is (as long as they are good).

Probably my favorite film of the past few years was "Portrait de la Jeune Fille en Feu" and that barely has any lines for male characters. But it is a beautiful story, incredibly well-shot, with some inventive scenes and a terrific soundtrack.

 

 

 

 

[Enrico_sw]

9 minutes ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

I see the direct influence of "wokeness" a lot more in stuff like SISE (MJ's activism through swimsuit issue) than I see it in TV and movies.

 I agree that SISE has gone full woke.

 

9 minutes ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

A good movie is a good screenplay adapted to the screen by an able director, who marshals the various departments to create something special.

On this, I agree too.

 

10 minutes ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

But I am not overly preoccupied with the exact nature of the story or who the cast is (as long as they are good).

 

On this, I agree too. This is EXACTLY my point and what I've consistently been saying for the past years. And woke is the opposite of that. Woke is about who the cast is (whether they're good or not - and then, they shift the blame when the audience realizes it and when they don't want to see scapegoats).

 

So, should I understand that you don't like Woke, because we're saying the same thing here?

 

---

So, I guess our disagreement is the fact that you don't think Woke is responsible for the demise of Star Wars, ST Discovery and Picard, Batwoman and many many others... (even if their show runners have consistently been saying that the gender/ethnicity of the cast was a relevant factor in the quality of their shows)
 

[Enrico_sw]

Quote

Hulu’s Woke Reportedly Replaced Black Female Showrunner With Antiracist White Man After She Refused To “Only Punch Down” At White Men

https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/01/19/hulus-woke-reportedly-replaced-black-female-showrunner-with-antiracist-white-man-after-she-refused-to-only-punch-down-at-white-men/

 

A recent example of what happens. It shows why woke is divisive and full of hatred.

[Cult Icon]

@Enrico_sw

 

@SympathysSilhouette

 

@Stromboli1

 

This is the Polish Witcher movie, it was uploaded onto youtube.  hit cc for subtitles.  I haven't finished it yet:

 

 

 

The very tall girl that plays Pavetta looks like Constance Jablonski's sister-

[Stromboli1]

 

[Cult Icon]

On 1/22/2022 at 10:03 AM, Enrico_sw said:

 

This scene is really good.

 

I remember hearing that the Witcher writer (Sapkowski) didn't like this show. Do you know why?

 

The show looks a lot more like the games, and the setting is Eastern european.  All the actors appear to be Polish.  

 

Yeah, the university interview link I posted- he basically (indirectly) stated that he didn't like either Season 1 Netflix or the Polish Witcher movie & show (1 season- then canceled).  He didn't get into details, he just said that TV/film cannot really compare to novels and the Witcher film/tv shows are shit. 

 

 

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On 1/22/2022 at 8:41 AM, SympathysSilhouette said:

 

To be fair, I know plenty of Tolkien purists who hated a lot about Jackson's adaption. e.g. the expansion of the Arwen role compared to the novels.

Or the total omission of the Tom Bombadil section.

 

But I expect the Prime series to be hot garbage, mostly because all of the "next GoT" shows have failed miserably at capturing even a fraction of the cultural significance of the HBO show.

 

The trilogy was already 12 hours (too long) so I can understand why two major parts (Bombadil and the Scouring of the Shire) were cut.  IT's actually rather unfortunate as they could have cut some other stuff just to add these two philosophically important parts in.  It's brilliant that Tolkein included these two elements in his story (the Buddha and the price of victory), adds so much depth.  I suspect that these "difficult" parts were taken out because the audience was perceived as "too dumb" to really appreciate it.  

 

Have you seen Vikings?  While people confuse this for history it is actually more along the lines of mythology/historical fantasy.  I think it's just as good but in a different way, has high production values, and more importantly it has a very strong primary cast.  I think Travis Fimmel was epic in his role as Ragner, and with his big character arc his role was ultimately better than any actor in Game of Thrones.  The other OG crew are all strong.  The show, like GOT however, declined a lot in quality in the last two seasons.  

 

 

I liked the probable theory at the end of the end of the video- that the ending of game of thrones that we saw in the TV show was actually a very truncated and underdeveloped version of what GRRM was going to do in the books.  It is obvious that he didn't know how to get to the ending himself as he didn't write it.  But the ending was going to be structured like LOTR:ROT, with the end being a costly victory that changes everything.  (Just like World War 1 was for the Allies.. a war he fought in as a signals officer)

[Cult Icon]

The ????? with the LOTR show is that it's a mega-budget thrown at unproven "talent".  In the current environment a lot of untalented directors and actors are getting their chance to satiate the high demand for streaming content.. Quantity is outpacing quality.

 

With the woke casting, and the mostly made-up content (I have finished reading most of the Simarillion- the LOTR show has little source material)  I suspect the show will end up looking like the Netflix Witcher.  All the mega-bucks will have to go somewhere so the CGI, effects etc should be entertaining at least and worth a watch.

 

Vikings Valhalla (Netflix) looks pretty bad compared to the old History channel show.  The actors in it are noticably very young.

 

The billion dollar Avatar films is also another potential flop...Cameron obviously didn't forecast the downfall of the theater industry!  And how the Avatar franchise could possibly be just a one-hit wonder..

 

 

[Cult Icon]

I recall how a big issue in the mid-2000s was that CGI was replacing the traditional practical-effects industry in hollywood.  A lot of practical effects businesses went under, and soon the industry lost a lot of its ability to make high quality practical effects. This is pretty sad, given that CGI is mostly abused rather than well-used these days.  I have always preferred high quality practical effects plus some CGI to enhance it.  Now it's the other way around.

 

I noticed this in the LOTR and the Hobbit films.  The first film had a good mix of practical/CGI effects, but after that there was too much CGI in some of the battle scenes.  The Hobbit films were hack films, quickly made to cash in and thus used a ton of CGI to the point where the films look like game cutscenes.

[Stromboli1]

The Hobbit movie should've been just 1 3 hour+ instead of 3 movies inventing content.

 

Peter Jackson took a lot of criticism for the Hobbit movies.

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3 hours ago, Stromboli1 said:

The Hobbit movie should've been just 1 3 hour+ instead of 3 movies inventing content.

 

The Audiobook for the hobbit is only 11 hrs long, which isn't much material for 3 long movies.

 

I have watched some of the polish Witcher movie...

 

It's pretty good so far, I like it better than netflix.

[Cult Icon]

https://vod.tvp.pl/video/wiedzmin,odc-2-nauka,39525308

 

Ah, I figured it out.  This is all 13 episodes of Witcher Season 1, it ends with the uniting with Ciri that should be in book 2.  Unfortunately it is all in polish and I don't know how to watch it in english except downloading them and then using a media player to translate it into english.

 

So the "movie" is actually 2 hrs summary, extracted from the 13 episode series. (each episode about 48 minutes or so)   Just from watching the movie I can tell that it is actually a proper adaptation.

[Cult Icon]

2 episodes are on youtube: