32 minutes ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

 

If you are referring to Daniel Craig's Bond dying, I'm pretty sure that has more to do with Craig being done with the role!

 

Friend, the whole marketing campaign of "No time to die" was about re-educating James Bond about "me too" and "neo-feminism". Here are a couple of examples (among hundreds of them):

Quote

https://www.radiotimes.com/movies/no-time-to-die-director-me-too-james-bond-newsupdate/

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/no-time-to-die-star-says-daniel-craig-made-james-bond-a-feminist/

https://theconversation.com/is-james-bond-a-misogynist-he-doesnt-have-to-be-connery-moore-or-even-craigs-vision-forever-169619

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/sep/30/never-mind-the-explosions-how-sexist-is-no-time-to-die

 

I mean the evidence is overwhelming.  That doesn't mean that it's contradictory with the fact the Craig was done with the role. Both statements can be true at the same time.

 

You bring many great points (and I agree with most of them), but you seem to constantly want to avoid the fact that Hollywood is politicizing its movies. It's not punished by the law to say that (at least not yet ).

I look at comments on websites like Rotten tomatoes (or even youtube videos) and, if you exclude the inflammatory comments (that always exists everywhere on the internet), most people are just asking that Hollywood makes good stories without constantly vilifying them on the basis of their skin color or gender.

 

They just want the likes of Brie Larson to stop scorning them because of their gender. They don't want people like Elizabeth Banks to emotionally blackmail them (and it doesn't work anyway).

 

I think it's a fair request.

 

----

 

This homeless guy is not an oppressor:

 

And this millionaire woman is not a victim:

 

 

I heard Star Wars Picard is depressing and franchise-damaging to long-time Trek fans.  Same thing with Dr. Who.  (I don't watch either).  

 

 

13 hours ago, Enrico_sw said:

 

And so what? She's a beloved character.

 

That proves that the narrative that says "male audience is mean, disgusting and we should re-educate them" is completely wrong and fallacious.

 

Well it's more about the fact that the trend to turn male characters into female ones isn't exactly new? And people back then didn't care.

6 hours ago, Cult Icon said:

I heard Star Wars Picard is depressing and franchise-damaging to long-time Trek fans.  Same thing with Dr. Who.  (I don't watch either).  

 

 

 

It isn't very good. If not for Sir Patrick Stewart, I'm not sure if if would have stuck around for the entirety of season one.

 

But I also think Discovery isn't that great. Part of the problem is that the people running those shows aren't real Trekkies and they have been influenced more by JJ Abrams bad movies than by the prior Trek series (which were primarily about utopian humanism and an optimistic view of the future).

 

I do have some hope for the upcoming Captain Pike series, starring Anson Mount as Pike.

In general I think that a lot of the "wokeness ruined this" debate is about other things.

 

Like I hate the 2016 all-female Ghostbusters, but my problem with that film was not the cast. It was how poor the screenplay was and how visually unimaginative it all looked. It looked just like any other Paul Feig film. Whereas the original Ghostbusters was a comedy, but it wasn't shot like a comedy. It looked more than The Thing than it did like Caddyshack.

I don't like Ghostbusters Afterlife either, another movie that suffers badly from terrible writing. Though at least Jason Reitman tried to recreate/update his father's visual style a bit more. So at least it looked more like a Ghostbusters movie than Feig's effort.

No one asked for Ghostbusters 2016 and Afterlife, people who were fans wanted another movie with the 4 OG Ghostbusters. It didn't happen due to tension between the cast, Murray & Ramis.

Activism has ruined a lot of IPs over the last few years. Always trying to change the existing IPs cause they know those brands have built in fanbases. They can't create anything new cause they know it'll fail and just deconstruct the IPs.

 

America is in a state of cultural decay.

5 hours ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

 

Well it's more about the fact that the trend to turn male characters into female ones isn't exactly new? And people back then didn't care.

 

This is completely different to say the Witcher, comics characters, SW,... Alien didn't exist before the 1st movie. It's not like there was an existing character (that people knew and loved) that was gender swapped or killed because he had the wrong gender/ethnicity (or any other criteria that the zeitgeist promotes)

 

We didn't care back back then, because these characters were good. And it will never bother us if the characters are GOOD.

Today's female characters are bad most of the time (which shows how feminism is not really defending women). These characters don't have narrative arcs where they have to prove themselves, evolve, get better after overcoming hardships.

 

Characters like Rey in SW or Captain Marvel are always the "bestest" at everything without even trying. This is not realistic, that's why people (men and women alike) don't like these characters.

1 hour ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

In general I think that a lot of the "wokeness ruined this" debate is about other things.

 

Like I hate the 2016 all-female Ghostbusters, but my problem with that film was not the cast. It was how poor the screenplay was and how visually unimaginative it all looked. It looked just like any other Paul Feig film. Whereas the original Ghostbusters was a comedy, but it wasn't shot like a comedy. It looked more than The Thing than it did like Caddyshack.

I don't like Ghostbusters Afterlife either, another movie that suffers badly from terrible writing. Though at least Jason Reitman tried to recreate/update his father's visual style a bit more. So at least it looked more like a Ghostbusters movie than Feig's effort.

 

These are not separate subjects.

 

Woke is highly correlated with poor quality shows. IMO, it's more than a correlation, it's a causality. Creatively bankrupt creators and risk adverse investors want to woke things up in their shows because they think it can make up for their failures. But it doesn't. And since Hollywood is an oligopoly, it's a slow mammoth that will change very very slowly.

1 hour ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

In general I think that a lot of the "wokeness ruined this" debate is about other things.

 

Like I hate the 2016 all-female Ghostbusters, but my problem with that film was not the cast. It was how poor the screenplay was and how visually unimaginative it all looked. It looked just like any other Paul Feig film. Whereas the original Ghostbusters was a comedy, but it wasn't shot like a comedy. It looked more than The Thing than it did like Caddyshack.

I don't like Ghostbusters Afterlife either, another movie that suffers badly from terrible writing. Though at least Jason Reitman tried to recreate/update his father's visual style a bit more. So at least it looked more like a Ghostbusters movie than Feig's effort.

 

There's another thing. You seem to not be bothered by wokeness (I may be wrong, so correct me if I am). You're a reasonable guy who want to do the right thing. So, I don't understand why you tolerated an ideology that judges people on the basis of their skin color and gender, while designating a scapegoat (straight white male).

 

I really and honestly don't get it. Lots of good faith / reasonable people get dragged by this woke trend.

 

(And some of them tend to get violent about it - which is not your case, so thanks for that)

5 hours ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

 

It isn't very good. If not for Sir Patrick Stewart, I'm not sure if if would have stuck around for the entirety of season one.

 

But I also think Discovery isn't that great. Part of the problem is that the people running those shows aren't real Trekkies and they have been influenced more by JJ Abrams bad movies than by the prior Trek series (which were primarily about utopian humanism and an optimistic view of the future).

 

I do have some hope for the upcoming Captain Pike series, starring Anson Mount as Pike.

 

 

This is a pretty good example. Discovery and Picard are extremely woke shows, with very political marketing campaign (the evidence is overwhelming, even Patrick Stewart took part in this marketing strategy).

 

As you say, Star Trek (a franchise that I really like) was originally humanist and it often encouraged bridges between people. Woke is the exact opposite : it antagonizes people, it makes them hate each other, on the basis of their skin color, gender, or sexual orientation

 

8 hours ago, Cult Icon said:

I heard Star Wars Picard is depressing and franchise-damaging to long-time Trek fans.  Same thing with Dr. Who.  (I don't watch either).  

 

 

 

 

Yep, they're right. It's completely retconning and denaturing what we loved in the original shows (like TNG). The scenario is garbage, but the actors are good and the soundtrack is awesome. Jeff Russo (the guy that wrote the OST) is my hero. That guy is super talented.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Stromboli1 said:

Activism has ruined a lot of IPs over the last few years. Always trying to change the existing IPs cause they know those brands have built in fanbases. They can't create anything new cause they know it'll fail and just deconstruct the IPs.

 

America is in a state of cultural decay.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Enrico_sw said:

Today's female characters are bad most of the time (which shows how feminism is not really defending women). These characters don't have narrative arcs where they have to prove themselves, evolve, get better after overcoming hardships.

 

Characters like Rey in SW or Captain Marvel are always the "bestest" at everything without even trying. This is not realistic, that's why people (men and women alike) don't like these characters.

 

Captain Marvel is one of the most powerful characters within the Marvel universe. So you think they should diminish her powers when adapting her story for a movie? But why? They don't really do this for any other character. In fact, they do the opposite. e.g. Captain America should last about three seconds in a fight with Thanos if comics canon is applied.

 

9 minutes ago, Enrico_sw said:

 

These are not separate subjects.

 

Woke is highly correlated with poor quality shows. IMO, it's more than a correlation, it's a causality. Creatively bankrupt creators and risk adverse investors want to woke things up in their shows because they think it can make up for their failures. But it doesn't. And since Hollywood is an oligopoly, it's a slow mammoth that will change very very slowly.

 

But what is woke about Afterlife? It's just a bad Ghostbusters movie. That sort of tried to make "Stranger Things, but it's Ghosbusters!" instead of a proper Ghostbusters film.

1 minute ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

 

Captain Marvel is one of the most powerful characters within the Marvel universe. So you think they should diminish her powers when adapting her story for a movie? But why? They don't really do this for any other character. In fact, they do the opposite. e.g. Captain America should last about three seconds in a fight with Thanos if comics canon is applied.

 

 

Don't put words in my mouth,. I think Captain Marvel is a poorly written character (from comics to movie).

 

Just like Rey is a poorly written character. But Leia was a great character, Mara Jade was a great character, etc.

 

Being the bestest at everything without trying makes poor characters.

2 minutes ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

 

But what is woke about Afterlife? It's just a bad Ghostbusters movie. That sort of tried to make "Stranger Things, but it's Ghosbusters!" instead of a proper Ghostbusters film.

 

I wasn't talking about GB Afterlife. I replied to your sentence "In general I think that a lot of the "wokeness ruined this" debate is about other things."

 

My point is that these are not separate subjects.

And the 2016 all-female Ghostbusters that you mentioned is a very woke show.