i love Tatjana very much, and i know she was part of the original 5 before Claudia stepped in and replaced her, but i guess it was all because Tatjana was way too shy & reserved, and didn't allow her private life to become public....she soon started focusing more on her acting career than her modelling one, and this worked against her as a fashion model at the time...it happened in a time when you had Naomi who got engaged with DeNiro, Tyson, DiCaprio and so on, Linda with french soccer player Fabien Barthez, Christy & Cindy respectively with Hollywood actors Christian Slater & Richard Gere, Tatjana was a little out of place already...until there comes Claudia with her Brigitte Bardot"esque" looks, dating internationally known magician Copperfield and being also of the same nationality as Tatjana, it was easy to replace her in the "big 5" lineup...Gianni Versace, the real creator of the "supermodels", loved Claudia and used her in so many of his runway shows, but he rarely used Tatjana....even though Claudia is a bit younger and started her career later than Tatjana, it's pretty safe to say she left the bigger impact in fashion world out of the 2....Claudia still holds the record for being the model who appeared on more fashion magazines covers (Giselle Bunchen has the record for more covers in general, not only fashion ones), and if i'm not wrong, she broke Christy's record for the biggest cosmetic contract....younger generations still know who Claudia Schiffer is, it's not always the same with Tatjana Patitz, that's why everybody in the business, when talking about the "big 5", think of Cindy, Linda, Naomi, Christy & Claudia

^^^ i dont gree with that

i love claudia but she, as well as helena were 2nd gen supers

doesnt matter if Tatjana was shy and reserved... she had just as many covers and eds and ads as Any of the girls

she had more vogue covers than christy AND naomi

it doesnt matter if younger generations dont always remember her... she was one of the hardest working

most prolific models of the time. tot ake that away from her and say she was 'replaced' by claudia does her a great disservice

and i dont agree that gianni versace 'created' the supermodels --Peter Lindbergh did with his iconic british vogue cover

of which Tatjana is in...... george michael took it a step farther by using all the girls in his 'freedom video'

and versace went with the theme and had linda naomi cindy and christy walk down the runway singing it.

im not saying,' hey take claudia off i love claudia as well... tatjana deserves it more' im saying dont take away her achievements

because she didnt allow her private life to become public just means she was savvy and didnt put up with bullshit

a trait to be admired, i think.

tatjana was getting covers and editorials and campaigns 5 yrs before claudia even started modelling

the pics that inspired the whole 'supermodel' thang

i voted for christy ,btw

The more I learn about them the more I'm amazed, they are all amazing models , seemingly at ease at all phases (commercial and high fashion).

But I voted for Naomi . She's one of my top middle-aged woman crushes .

middle age!?!?!?! dude, shes 38 yrs old :persuazn:

let her get out of her 30's before you damn her to middleage-dom!!!

Oh, I don't really know what middle age means and didn't know how old she was .

you don't have to convince me how good of a model Tatjana was, i sincerely like her better than Claudia to say the truth, but there are a few things that go beyond the personal tastes, and one of those things is that, as time went by, Claudia has left a bigger impact through the years compared to Tatjana, and that's a fact...the second generation of models begun when Kate Moss, Shalom Harlow, Carolyn Murphy,Amber Valletta, Brandi Quinones, Bridgett Hall and them other girls that stepped on the runway in the early/mid 90's, Claudia's first runway show was a 1987 Chanel show (and Helena begun in those years too, she's older than Christy, Naomi & Claudia)...it's another fact that in the business, when you name the "big 5", everyone and their mothers think of Linda, Christy, Cindy, Naomi & Claudia, despite all Peter Lindbergh shoot or George Michael's music videos, and that's another fact...Gianni Versace was the creator of supermodels, he was the one who brought the girls appearing on all fashion magazines at the time and brought them on the runway, Lindbergh, Herb Rittz, Maisel as well as George Michael or even Madonna with the song "Vogue" or the music video of "Erotica" with Naomi & Isabella Rossellini soon understood the trend and followed the path

proof Claudia was bigger in fashion world compared to Tatjana is in this video, and this is from 1994, when the second generation of models had already begun...only Cindy was bigger than Claudia

I voted for Linda.

Middle age is 50

i wasnt trying to convince you.... i was merely stating my opinion

and as for helena christensen...in her 1991 interview for house of style, she states that shes been modelling for a year and a half

helena Started when the supermodel thing exploded

thats not quite 1987. is it?--and also, claudia didnt reach international fame until 'those bardot-esque' guess ads which, though im not sure exactly when they came out

id say 89 or 90.. claudia stayed in the business longer.. tatjana went on to live her life happily out of the spotlight.

does this mean that she shouldnt get recognition?

to me, it doesnt matter who made a bigger commercial impact over time

the reasons you listed for not counting tatjana seemed strange to me

she didnt date famous people?? huh???

you say everyone and their mother knows that claudia was one of the five

well, i say anyone who knows and cares about the history of modelling knows different

anyways... you wont waver from your opinion and neither will i, so shall we agree to disagree?

and going by that video....elle macpherson and niki taylor should be on your list as opposed to naomi

Middle age is 50

Yeah, that makes since .

But of course she could have been any age and I'm still in love with her like her some .

^^^^^

oh joe... i kind of adore you think that youre merely o.k.

Tatjana WAS one of the supers & one of the 5!

Even my mom knew who she was & my dear maman chérie doesn't give a $h%t! about fashion!!!

Claudia wasn't one of the five sorry...

As Penny said the big five were on the cover of that famous British vogue (January 1990) and Claudia started to be really "big" few months or a year later. She was one of the super but NOT one of the five...

and as for helena christensen...in her 1991 interview for house of style, she states that shes been modelling for a year and a half

helena Started when the supermodel thing exploded thats not quite 1987. is it?--

in 1991 she actually said she worked in Paris for 2 years, and that makes 1989...it could also mean she had worked in other cities before as well, so even is she started just the previous year somewhere else other than Paris, in 1888, that's not that far from 1987

claudia didnt reach international fame until 'those bardot-esque' guess ads which, though im not sure exactly when they came out

id say 89 or 90

Just like Tatjana didn't reach international fame until that Lindbergh shoot & George Michael video in 1990

does this mean that she shouldnt get recognition?

i'm not saying that just because Tatjana doesn't belong to the aforementioned group she souldn't get recognition, she was an amazing model in her own right, one of the best i've ever seen, but i like to state facts, and fact is that, maybe because of her own choices, or of certain coincidences, she doesn't belong to that group as well as other great models like Stephanie Seymor, Karen Mulder or Helena Christensen...that's just a name, a title, being part of that group doesn't necessarily make those 5 better than others, they were just more popular and more used by fashion oriented people in magazines, opening or closing runway shows and so on, but still, that's the way they were called, you cannot change history

the reasons you listed for not counting tatjana seemed strange to me

she didnt date famous people?? huh???

i didn't say that...it was just an example to explain how Tatjana stood out of the spotlight even when she could have done otherwise, and even more, in a time when supermodels were on every single magazine for anything, both personal and public...i know she's been dating soul singer Seal for some time, but she never had covers like this this or this and that's why most people forgot about her so quickly

and going by that video....elle macpherson and niki taylor should be on your list as opposed to naomi

everybody know black girls have always been less used compared to white ones in fashion world, that's a sad reality, even back then...Naomi herself said that on a few occations Christy & Linda said photographers and fashion designers "If you'r not using Naomi, you're not getting us!" ...unfortunatelly Naomi, for being a black girl, was already lucky enough to just be on that list on the first place, even though it sucks because she an amazing model, but that's the way this difficult world is, sometimes

as i said, were not going to agree upon this subject..so the blah blah blah means nil.

who cares whats fair in the industry?? i mentioned niki and elle since You were the one to bring in the vid

about who was making what money.

edit: money earned is an indicator of as you said... 'Commercial impact' is it not?

and perhaps tatjana didnt appear in pics with her lovers because she didnt want people in her private business

that makes her seem intelligent and savvy as opposed to the girls who flaashed their relationships <all of which failed, btw>

for all the world to see

edit: tatjana appeared on one or more covers of american vogue Every year from 87 to 92 5 yrs

claudia appeared in one ore more covers from 90 to 96

5 straight years on the cover of vogue is commercial impact, is it not?

who cares whats fair in the industry?? i mentioned niki and elle since You were the one to bring in the vid

about who was making what money.

well, black models like Naomi, or even a black guy like myself do care, if you don't mind...i brought the video up to prove how Tatjana was nowhere to be seen in it as opposed to Claudia, but than again, that doesn't make Claudia the better model out of the two...i meant that the big 5 were the first 4 white girls (Cindy, Claudia, Christy & Linda) and the first black one (Naomi), but they were called like that not only because they were more used in fashion magazines & runway shows, but also because they were more popular to the average people, that's it....Elle MacPherson was pretty famous too (she was married to fashion magazine Elle's director, no surprise), but still she didn't do not even half as many high fashion shows as the other girls, she was more of a "sport-illustrated" kind of model, and Niki belongs more to that second generation of supers

and perhaps tatjana didnt appear in pics with her lovers because she didnt want people in her private business

that makes her seem intelligent and savvy as opposed to the girls who flaashed their relationships <all of which failed, btw>

for all the world to see

i agree with that, and i appreciate Tatjana more than the other girls for being more reserved and not bringing her private life in public just for the sake of a few magazines headlines, but the very same thing worked somehow against her for she was soon less popularly known than the other girls....supermodels at the time were superstars, not like today....fashion designers were fighting to have them in their fashion shows and they were ready to pay a real fortune just for them to walk their runways, because they were attracting all the medias and the attention....well, Claudia belongs to that group because she, just like the other 4, created such a buzz, Tatjana, not quite

money earned is an indicator of as you said... 'Commercial impact' is it not?

i missed this question....exactly, the more popular they were, the more fashion designers wanted them in their shows & companies wanted them in advertisings the more money they got, and so on...a merry go round that made them the big 5, not necessarily because they were better models than others...i actually think Tatjana could both work a picture and walk the runway better than Claudia, but Claudia was more popular and more used, that's why she belongs to the group instead of Tatjana...as a matter of fact my personal top five supers are Linda Evangelista, Stephanie Seymour, Paulina Porizkova, Helena Christensen & Tatjana Patitz, so it's not that i'm partial to Claudia, even though i do like her, but it's just the way history went

even a black guy like myself do care, if you don't mind

im jamaican/german myself, and i do care about such issues... but ive learned the hard way that fairness has little to do with the industry

theres a great quote by lagerfeld: 'theres no such thing as fairness in the fashion industry--if you want equality, go become a social worker--

i understand all your points.. and agree to a certain extent with some of them.

good debate... thanks

lets leave it at that

Linda

you don't have to convince me how good of a model Tatjana was, i sincerely like her better than Claudia to say the truth, but there are a few things that go beyond the personal tastes, and one of those things is that, as time went by, Claudia has left a bigger impact through the years compared to Tatjana, and that's a fact...the second generation of models begun when Kate Moss, Shalom Harlow, Carolyn Murphy,Amber Valletta, Brandi Quinones, Bridgett Hall and them other girls that stepped on the runway in the early/mid 90's, Claudia's first runway show was a 1987 Chanel show (and Helena begun in those years too, she's older than Christy, Naomi & Claudia)...it's another fact that in the business, when you name the "big 5", everyone and their mothers think of Linda, Christy, Cindy, Naomi & Claudia, despite all Peter Lindbergh shoot or George Michael's music videos, and that's another fact...Gianni Versace was the creator of supermodels, he was the one who brought the girls appearing on all fashion magazines at the time and brought them on the runway, Lindbergh, Herb Rittz, Maisel as well as George Michael or even Madonna with the song "Vogue" or the music video of "Erotica" with Naomi & Isabella Rossellini soon understood the trend and followed the path

In way you are indeed right. Although there isn't a BIG 5, but a BIG SIX. That's how the fashion busyness calls them and they are: Cindy, Naomy, Linda, Claudia, Christy AND Kate Moss. I did a little bit of googleing and although kate was always seen as a little bit of an outsider the world still calls them "THE BIG SIX".

good debate... thanks

lets leave it at that

yes, interesting indeed

there isn't a BIG 5, but a BIG SIX

well, they actually were renamed big six when Kate stepped into the scene, with her different "waif" looks compared to any other model at the time, but that happened years later.... Kate was kind of leading the second generation of supers, that included Shalom Harlow, Niki Taylor, Amber Valletta, Carolyn Murphy, Brandi Quinones, Bridgett Hall & a few others, started to be all over the place and her name got attached to the big 5 becoming the big 6, but since i'm not much into Kate as a supermodel (she looks very average to me, nothing "super" about her) i'd rather stick to the original lineup...i also believe that being close friend to Naomi, Christy & Linda really helped paving the way for Kate, she had three supers on her side to stand for her

good debate... thanks

lets leave it at that

yes, interesting indeed

there isn't a BIG 5, but a BIG SIX

well, they actually were renamed big six when Kate stepped into the scene, with her different "waif" looks compared to any other model at the time, but that happened years later, when Kate started to be all over the place, but since i'm not much into Kate as a supermodel (she looks very average to me, nothing "super" about her) i'd rather stick to the original lineup...i also believe that being close friend to Naomi, Christy & Linda really helped paving the way for Kate, she had three supers on her side to stand for her

Wow, talking bout knowing fashion history

Cindy