Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince:

[safin83]

no, i think i might be wrong, hermione said some crap about his mothers name being prince, but thats not really anything related to the book

and that theory of blacks brother, i never thought of that, but it does make sense givin the content of the note

[SchtoopingHer]

You can't even assume he was going to quit his job considering Hagrid doesn't even know the full conversation. That and Hagrid said he SOUNDED like he was over-worked, he did not say that Snape said he was over worked. There is a big difference, especially where Snape is concerned.

Unless, of course, I'm reading it in a different context than you are which may be the case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Overworked has nothing to do with it--unless of course, you take it the obvious way, meaning leading the double life was taxing.

What you should be focused on is what hagrid quoted snape as saying "I heard snape saying DD took too much for granted, and maybe he- snape- didn't want to do it anymore"

Direct Quote, Snape saying he wants to stop the double life-quit his job. Either way, it wouldnt be a smart move if he were really working for Volde.

unless that conversation was genuine, it makes no sense.

[avadakedavra]

It could also have been Snape saying he didn't want to work for Dumbledore anymore. That he wanted to stop spying all together.

[Guest Lullaby]

Direct Quote, Snape saying he wants to stop the double life-quit his job. Either way, it wouldnt be a smart move considering what you have his plans being.

Perhaps Dumbledore asked Snape to do something we're not aware of just yet and that's what he was talking about. We're thinking only the order and his job at Hogwarts, but that can't be the only thing he has going right now. As far as Dumbledore is concerned, not Voldemort.

[SchtoopingHer]

Yeah it coudl hav ebeen Avada, but how does that fit in if he was actually bad?

Why would he do that, given the unbreakable vow, and his plans to be an accomplice in DD's death?

[safin83]

well it sure sounded like snape might be trying to quit, but we dont really know what snape ment when the said he didnt want to do it anymore, we dont know for sure what he was talking about

[Guest Lullaby]

well it sure sounded like snape might be trying to quit, but we dont really know what snape ment when the said he didnt want to do it anymore, we dont know for sure what he was talking about

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly.

[SchtoopingHer]

Whatever, Lullaby, grasp at straws, but int he context of what we know, my point is very valid.

When he says he doesnt want to do "it" anymore, that seems like a fairly ominous job, not something new or auxillary.

[Guest Lullaby]

Who said it was new? It could've been something asked in previous years that we didn't know about. It could emerge in the seventh book.

It could be absolutely anything.

[SchtoopingHer]

well it sure sounded like snape might be trying to quit, but we dont really know what snape ment when the said he didnt want to do it anymore, we dont know for sure what he was talking about

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We don't know, you're right, but just like Harry interupted DD when he was about give the details of Snape's "return", I find it convenient that we overheard that statement, especially if its for somethign random that wont play to importance int he future.

If it doesn't, how did you read the scene as important, or even jsut in general toward where you thought the end was going?

[safin83]

well, when i read the scene, of course i did think that snape may not want to be the spy anymore, but does that not sound too obvious, i think rowling may have something up her sleeve with that conversation, something we'll know in the seventh book

[SchtoopingHer]

As a sidenote, I thought I would tell you guys about hwo I read the scene at Snape's house:

The only thing Snape revealed to prove that he "knew the dark lord's plan" was say he couldn't persuade the Dark Lord once hed made up his mind, or something like that.

Then Narcissa blew up about how Draco was being punished by being asked to do it.

Notice they never mentioned WHO they were going after, just that Malfoy had to do it.

And later in the book, DD indicates that Snape has told him that Draco won't confide in him (as we see proof of), so he wouldn't have known it was DD malfoy was after, and not Harry. Which also might explain why he was right there when Harry and Draco fought int he bathroom: He REALLY WAS trying to figure out who Draco was after and how.

EDIT: And don't you think its funny how without a face, Harry thought Snape (as the HBP) was GOOD all year long (even defending him, often)?

[SchtoopingHer]

Also when harry overhears Snape and Draco talking about the Unbreakable Vow, Harry later tells DD, who already knows this.

If snape were truly bad, there would be no reason to tell DD this.

[safin83]

i translated the bathroom scene as snape keeping an eye on malfoy because of the vow, not necessarly that he was trying to figure out who malfoy was after

but your really making me think; the second chapter, the plan was never reveled, it made sense not to, you dont want to give the whole plot away at the begining of the book, but it could also have been that snape being the spy, he could have just said he knew the plan, in hoping that one of the sisters would blurt it out since they thought he knew it too, but i think that would be highly unlikely given the books ending

[safin83]

Also when harry overhears Snape and Draco talking about the Unbreakable Vow, Harry later tells DD, who already knows this.

If snape were truly bad, there would be no reason to tell DD this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

does harry tell dumbledore about the unbreakable vow, i just remember him saying that he overheard them talking, which dumbledore says it was under his orders that snape questioned malfoy, i think harry only told ron, but id have to check this to be sure.

[SchtoopingHer]

Yeah, the bathroom scene could easily be interpretted that way, too.

"If unlikely, given the book's ending", I think it is only because we are assuming that DD had not foreseen this, or ordered Snape to do it (perhaps what he was arguing against with DD, which DD told him he'd already promised to do).

That's what I think is so good about this theory, it plays into all the evidence we have.

And I really strongly believe there is no point for Snape to tell DD about the Vow if he is truly against him.

[safin83]

yes, that would make sense, snape saying he didnt want to kill dumbledore if things went wrong, and dumbledore reminding him that he had already agreed to do it, but for that theory to work, we would have to be assuming quit alot, granted alot of times things arent alway as they seem, but im not ready to jump on your theory yet

edit: even though im not buying your theory, something else that would back it up is when snape got to the tower, dumbledore pleaded with him saying "severus....please" that could be interpretted as dumbledore pleading for snape to carry out the plan and kill him...............but like i said, i dont really think thats the case

[SchtoopingHer]

OOOOOO, I found a good quote!!!

This is the quote where Harry tells DD about the unbreakable vow.

Its says that harry "tells him the story", after which DD says it isnt of great importance.

"Not of great importance?" repeated Harry incredulously. "Professor, did you understand-?"

"Yes, Harry, blessed as I am with extraordinary brain power, I understtod everything you have told me, " said Dumbledore, a littel sharply. " I think you might even consider the possibility that I understood more than you did. Again, I am glad that have confided in me, but let me reassure you that you have not told me anything that causes me disquiet".

If you ask me, this says a couple of things:

A) harry probably did tell him about the unbreakable vow, seeing as it was the main thing he mentioned to Ron a few scenes earlier.

B) By DD saying he probably understood more than Harry did, I think he meant a couple of things.

That Snape WAS telling the truth about not knowing what he was up to, and draco not telling him-even the Vow. All things that could have been signs of Snape attempting to cover himself for future calamities, turned out to be him telling the truth. And when he said he understood more, perhaps he meant that it only confirmed to DD that Snape was on his side.

C) He said he told him nothign that "caused him disquiet", something that the discovery of Snape's betrayal certainyl would have caused him.

No, I think DD trusted Snape, and with good reason, as this shows.

[SchtoopingHer]

yes, that would make sense, snape saying he didnt want to kill dumbledore if things went wrong, and dumbledore reminding him that he had already agreed to do it,

edit:

[SchtoopingHer]

And another thing, if Snape were really as high in the ranks as he made Bella and Narcisaa believe (he said of course he knew the plan, volde trusted him) don't you think he would have known about it on the night it happened (instead of simply being in his office), at very least from Volde, who he claims told him teh plan to begin with?

And notice Snape fought no one else from Hogwarts or the Aurors during the scene, he only escaped (and prevented harry from killing him).

And as someone else pointed out, his parting words were more like advice.

Doesnt seem very much like Snape, especially had he betrayed a trust. I feel he would have gloated and paraded it in front of him.

When harry used a spell against him, Snape even went so far as to scream, "No, Potter!" before it backfired and it him.

And when Harry says go on, kill me like you killed him, Snape screams back "DON'T-", almost as if Potter doesn't fully understand.

And I think that is the case.