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The Meaning Of Life

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you really like your first year psych don't you? hahahaha :p :laugh:

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Yup, first year psych!

But, I have to learn this many times.

Let's count:

In order to learn what motivates workers, I was taught what motivate people in Introductory Management class.

Again, I was taught this, when I had to learn about what motivate people to buy products, both in Introductory Marketing class and Consumer Behaviour (second year marketing) class.

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Ok, then give me a plausible meaning for our existance without a creator involved.  Purely atoms and energy...what possible meaning could we have?

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Nothing. There is really no meaning to life. We are all here by chance.

That is what I personally believe.

But, I guess, it is still possible to believe in living life to the fullest, without believing in the meaning of life or any divine beings. Epicurus, Socrates and Darwin believed in this.

Meaning is what we create. When confronted with mysteries that we cannot fathom, we seek to understand them by creating patterns.

We see many beautiful things created and can't help to feel that there may be a Great Designer. It is our instinct.

THis is why I really believe that there cannot be any divine being.

If ever there is a being so powerful, such that that being is perfect, that being will never create us.

We are all born imperfect/incomplete. That means we are born with needs.

Needs are defined as states of felt deprivation.

There are two types of needs psychological (love, affection, security, etc) and physical (water, food, sex, etc.)

Every single thing that we do, is because we strive to be more perfect/complete.

The motivation behind everything we do, is to fulfil a need.

Throughout our existence, we will always be slaves to needs, because we can never be complete.

If God is already perfect, then He will never feel any motivation to create anything.

It is irrational for Him to create us to fulfil His own need.

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Right, if we are purely atoms here by chance then there are no grounds for a meaning of life. The discussion of living life to it's fullest is a laughable illusion not unlike accepting the Matrix as real. The whole discussion of morality would then be meaningless too as atoms are just atoms and why would they care what form they took? A live person or a dead person. Eventually it all end up the same anyway. It's all meaningless.

This, off course does not sit well with our souls. We know in our hearts that this is NOT how it is. There must be some other explanation.

As for second guessing God and his feelings, motivations and needs..."If God is already perfect, then He will never feel any motivation to create anything. It is irrational for Him to create us to fulfil His own need."...I don't think I can even pretend to be able to do that.

Story: A man saw a little girl on a beach digging a hole. She then took her pail down to the water, filled it up, took it to her hole and poured the water in. She continued to do this several times until she began to get tired. The man walked over and asked her what she was doing. She replied, "I'm trying to get the ocean into my hole."

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Right, if we are purely atoms here by chance then there are no grounds for a meaning of life.  The discussion of living life to it's fullest is a laughable illusion not unlike accepting the Matrix as real.  The whole discussion of morality would then be meaningless too as atoms are just atoms and why would they care what form they took?  A live person or a dead person.  Eventually it all end up the same anyway.  It's all meaningless.

This is what I have been trying to figure out all along, but have yet to figure out.

Does knowledge/wisdom brings with it happiness or sadness?

Some philosophers realised the futility of existence and as a result of that, lead bitter, miserable, depressed life; while others think that there is no meaning of life, but it can easily be created by oneself, and therefore, feels more enlightened.

http://www.totse.com/en/religion/miscellan...nofg178998.html

If you look at the bigger picture, everything becomes meaningless.

You eat, to fulfil your hunger, and then, after awhile, you become hungry again.

We all live a quasi-Sisyphus lifestyle, eternally condemned to the vicious cycle of dull, pointless and agonising repetition.

This, off course does not sit well with our souls.  We know in our hearts that this is NOT how it is.  There must be some other explanation.

We like to think that the universe revolves around us. We like to think that we are special, that we are created for a divine purpose, while the animals are not.

This alone does not make sense.

As for second guessing God and his feelings, motivations and needs..."If God is already perfect, then He will never feel any motivation to create anything.  It is irrational for Him to create us to fulfil His own need."...I don't think I can even pretend to be able to do that.
No one can, for one second, pretend to do that. But, they already are doing that when they belief that He exist.
Story:  A man saw a little girl on a beach digging a hole.  She then took her pail down to the water, filled it up, took it to her hole and poured the water in.  She continued to do this several times until she began to get tired.  The man walked over and asked her what she was doing.  She replied, "I'm trying to get the ocean into my hole."

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I am no good with guessing, mostly because of my severe lack of patience.

Thus, I would really appreciate it, if you explicitly state the moral of the above story.

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so...tempting...to...contribute...but....must...not...type...only...pip... :p

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The quote explicitly mention that you don't have any purpose, until you create one yourself. Thanks for repeating, wise guy!

Sorry for repeating, I just agree with you on this.

Actually life has a meaning: Our bodies are the storage of (genetic) information. We reproduce ourself to copy and conserve that information. Every child born is a back-up!

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Why do you have to turn every thread into a pip thread?

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Because...ummm...you know...

Socrates used to pip all the time

and Aristotle preached pipping to all his students

*chucks rocks at Heid and runs* :avada:

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Right, if we are purely atoms here by chance then there are no grounds for a meaning of life.  The discussion of living life to it's fullest is a laughable illusion not unlike accepting the Matrix as real.  The whole discussion of morality would then be meaningless too as atoms are just atoms and why would they care what form they took?  A live person or a dead person.  Eventually it all end up the same anyway.  It's all meaningless.

This is what I have been trying to figure out all along, but have yet to figure out.

Does knowledge/wisdom brings with it happiness or sadness?

Some philosophers realised the futility of existence and as a result of that, lead bitter, miserable, depressed life; while others think that there is no meaning of life, but it can easily be created by oneself, and therefore, feels more enlightened.

http://www.totse.com/en/religion/miscellan...nofg178998.html

If you look at the bigger picture, everything becomes meaningless.

You eat, to fulfil your hunger, and then, after awhile, you become hungry again.

We all live a quasi-Sisyphus lifestyle, eternally condemned to the vicious cycle of dull, pointless and agonising repetition.

I do believe that this is a search we must take upon ourselves and not rely TOO much on the search that others have taken for themselves. True, ideas and enlightenments can come through other people but each of us must obviously be convinced for ourselves. Life can be futile or life can have meaning. If we choose a path and have some meaning in our lives, those that think life is futile will call us idiots and we will call them hopeless. Such is life. ;)

Oh and, according to the dominate religions you will find your answers after you die...but then it will be too late to do anything about it. Sucks, huh? Pick a lane! :p

This, off course does not sit well with our souls.  We know in our hearts that this is NOT how it is.  There must be some other explanation.

We like to think that the universe revolves around us. We like to think that we are special, that we are created for a divine purpose, while the animals are not.

This alone does not make sense.

I didn't say the universe revolves around us, I just think the futility rationale does not sit well with us. Well at least to me, it just doesn't seem right. There must be more to this place.

As for second guessing God and his feelings, motivations and needs..."If God is already perfect, then He will never feel any motivation to create anything.  It is irrational for Him to create us to fulfil His own need."...I don't think I can even pretend to be able to do that.
No one can, for one second, pretend to do that. But, they already are doing that when they belief that He exist.

Only if he does in fact exist, right? And then they are correct and not actually second guessing. hmmm. I'll have to think about this.

Story:  A man saw a little girl on a beach digging a hole.  She then took her pail down to the water, filled it up, took it to her hole and poured the water in.  She continued to do this several times until she began to get tired.  The man walked over and asked her what she was doing.  She replied, "I'm trying to get the ocean into my hole."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am no good with guessing, mostly because of my severe lack of patience.

Thus, I would really appreciate it, if you explicitly state the moral of the above story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh come on, oh ye of little patience. :p For the sake of the story let's say God exists. The moral is just an analogy of us trying to fit God's infinite wisdom into our little brains. :blink:

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I do believe that this is a search we must take upon ourselves and not rely TOO much on the search that others have taken for themselves.  True, ideas and enlightenments can come through other people but each of us must obviously be convinced for ourselves.  Life can be futile or life can have meaning.  If we choose a path and have some meaning in our lives, those that think life is futile will call us idiots and we will call them hopeless.  Such is life. ;) 

Oh and, according to the dominate religions you will find your answers after you die...but then it will be too late to do anything about it.  Sucks, huh?  Pick a lane!  :p

If we really search for everything ourself, it will take too long, plus, it will be prone to errors. If we never compare our ideas with that of other philosophers, we will keep coming up with crappy philosophies based on logical fallacies and poor arguments. Besides, if you really belief in finding out the answer for yourself, why believe in any man-made religion in the first place? Personally, I couldn't be bothered to follow any religion, until God Himself personally come down from above and tell me to worship Him or else He will bitchslap me.

I didn't say the universe revolves around us, I just think the futility rationale does not sit well with us.  Well at least to me, it just doesn't seem right.  There must be more to this place.
Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. You said that God exist, because there is absolute morality. Personally, I think morality is subjective. Anyway, if morality is indeed absolute, because God exist, how come the meaning of life is not so obvious to you and me?
Oh come on, oh ye of little patience.  :p  For the sake of the story let's say God exists.  The moral is just an analogy of us trying to fit God's infinite wisdom into our little brains.  :blink:

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This story assumes that God exists first. If the sea hasn't existed first, the girl will not be able to fill her hole.

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The quote explicitly mention that you don't have any purpose, until you create one yourself. Thanks for repeating, wise guy!

Sorry for repeating, I just agree with you on this.

Actually life has a meaning: Our bodies are the storage of (genetic) information. We reproduce ourself to copy and conserve that information. Every child born is a back-up!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But then again if we do not have kids, does that mean our life will have no meaning?

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Why do you have to turn every thread into a pip thread?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because...ummm...you know...

Socrates used to pip all the time

and Aristotle preached pipping to all his students

*chucks rocks at Heid and runs* :avada:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Liar! Aristotle and Socrates had different attitudes.

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Why do you have to turn every thread into a pip thread?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because...ummm...you know...

Socrates used to pip all the time

and Aristotle preached pipping to all his students

*chucks rocks at Heid and runs* :avada:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Liar! Aristotle and Socrates had different attitudes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you should be unconscious from that rock <_<

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you should be unconscious from that rock <_<

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The apple did not knock out Newton, so why should a tiny pebble do likewise to me?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know :idk:

You might suffer from some condition which makes your skull collapse upon my throwing a rock at your head? :laugh:

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But then again if we do not have kids, does that mean our life will have no meaning?

Hello, what's wrong with the picture???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nothing wrong, except I just couldn't figure out what happens to people who don't have kids. Does the Sisyphus-ean cycle end with them?

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Some people like Jimmy says that if everything eventually perish, there would be no meaning to life. Therefore, there must be an afterlife.

On the contrary, it can also be said that there is great point in living. Is happiness happiness even if there is no God? You get to live a full life, hopefully, and then when you die you don't care. It's like rest. Sweet deal, seems to me - a good existance and then no more worries or effort. With God, however, the whole of existance is trivialized - instead of pioneers blazing our way through a new and exciting universe, we're merely ants at God's feet. Because we are only here for about 100 years, it seems that whatever we do in life is meaningless, because with afterlife, life is actually becomes eternal. Therefore, if there is to be purpose in life, afterlife cannot possibly exist.

In the end, it's still subjective, and it's just a matter of "is the glass half-full or half-empty".

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Some people like Jimmy says that if everything eventually perish, there would be no meaning to life. Therefore, there must be an afterlife.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's not really an accurate summation of my viewpoint. Although, if one does not believe in a god or some source of truth, a measuring stick of morailty if you will, then we are left to complete subjectivity. If this is the case each of us can make our own morality and who is to say one is better than another? Murder would have to be as acceptable as Charity as they are simply atoms in action.

Let's look at this from another view...All cultures throughout history have had some common "sins" or actions that were considered evil within that culture. Murder is one. Even within cannibalistic cultures they considered the killing of a fellow tribesman as wrong and punishable. Another is stealing. Another, dishonesty. There are others... Sure, the cultures had different rules when it came to how they dealt with outsiders but they all share this thread of a common knowledge of good and evil that, for the lack of a better term, "is written on their hearts". I see this common knowledge of good and evil expressed even when we use phrases like "Hey, I was there first!", appealing to some unwritten, unspoken sense of right and wrong.

...We are not merely atoms. :wave:

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Why is murder wrong?

From an evolutionary sense, this is not beneficial.

Killing does not help survival.

From a common sense view point.

If I kill people, the next day, someone will try to kill me.

In the end, no one really benefits.

Thus, like some plants and animals, we form a symbiotic relationship, co-existing in harmony to reap the benefit of living happily together.

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OFF

Even if we were all atoms in action, there is more to things than that.

Example, no matter how much you study atoms in the atmosphere you will never seen turbulance in there, even if, by definition, it is just a bunch of air molecules.

Another example, you don't analyse a sports team by looking at all the individuals, that'd be silly. When players come together to form a team, things emerge from it e.g. teamwork

ON

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