Avenger Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 I heard that fistfightings brole out in Madrid's locker room after the Arsenal match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenger Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 100!Congrats to us!Long live football! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taben Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 :|Holy crap! What are you doing in here Ben? Are you really THAT bored?! yeah i was lol... i don't give a shit bout Lyon but since they're french i thought i'd support them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4793868.stm Alan Pardew is totally right (Y) . . . Arsene Wenger sucks. he doesn't give a toss about English football <_< Pardew is totally right. Caring about English football means you don't qualify for the best 8. Wenger broke the rule. they're not an English team any more though . . . do you not see that? at least other teams have a core of British players even Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool do i think that it's sad that English football is starting to lose its soul as teams like Arsenal increasingly import foreign mercenaries and value average foreign talents over decent British-born players. look at all the English players that Arsenal have lost because of their crappy foreign policy i'm just saying that Arsenal are supposed to be an English football team and therefore should at least have some sort of English representation. if this continues then they risk losing their identity and potentially losing much of their domestic support as fans lose the ability to relate to the club. caring about British football doesn't mean that. look at Chelsea and Liverpool last year . . . . there are no English teams left in the Champions League!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acmilan Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 giorgia palmas player of the atalanta is fianc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouazizi Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Juve 0 - 0 AC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_ed Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Arsenal 2-1 Liverpool we better start winning if we want to finish 3rd ahead of Spurs and Bolton, or even make it to 2nd in front of the Mancs <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acmilan Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 The Juve-Milan game was the worst game I watched in years (N) to both Juve and Milan for going out to play for the tie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyopos Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 juve milan 0 0 an ugly one has been left little occasions from goal on a field where it is not succeeded to play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOCHO Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 daaang.. I'm glad I didn't waste my time watching tha game.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_ed Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 they're not an English team any more though no . . . do you not see that? at least other teams have a core of British players whistle even Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool do i think that it's sad that English football is starting to lose its soul as teams like Arsenal increasingly import foreign mercenaries and value average foreign talents over decent British-born players. look at all the English players that Arsenal have lost because of their crappy foreign policy i'm just saying that Arsenal are supposed to be an English football team and therefore should at least have some sort of English representation. if this continues then they risk losing their identity and potentially losing much of their domestic support as fans lose the ability to relate to the club. caring about British football doesn't mean that. look at Chelsea and Liverpool last year cain . . . . there are no English teams left in the Champions League!! Normally Campbell and Cole are in the squad, but they just aren't fit. I can understand what Wenger is saying and I agree that a team should be about quality and not about the players' passports. If anything it'd be up to the immigr6ation department or the FA or UEFA to set the standards. The immigration department can't do much because their policy is that a player can be brought in for a working visa only if there are no other similar or better English players in the same price bracket, and if you look at how inflated prices are in the English market you begin to understand why Arsene chooses cheaper and better foreign imports. The FA haven't done anything about it, probably because it is more a legal issue than anything. UEFA however have stepped in and tried to introduce the home-grown policy where there should be a set number of home-grown players in a side. There is of course the legal implication with bringing in such a rule, and I anticipate the G14 to be the ones legally contesting such a decision once the rule is implemented. Also, according to the policy, a player is technically English after being trained by the club's academy for 3 years or longer. By the time the policy is implemented, many of Arsenal's foreignly-recruited youths will have been at the club for sometime, making them English. Arsenal do suffer on the field of course, as they have no physical influence, in a league that prides itself on it's fast pace and bone-crunching tackles. They are a team of technique, and due to that philosophy, they risk being dominated by the more aggressive and physical teams such as Bolton, Chelsea and Everton. Also, you can make the case that a team based purely on technique does not hold any British influence. Seriously, the Premier League is hardly renowned for technical or tactical skill (only recently has that image started to waver, but it only applies to the 'bigger' clubs as the 'smaller' ones are still rough as hell) Personally, I think Arsenal are overdoing it by bringing in too many foreign imports. They are even selling players such as Bentley! If you want English representation you have Walcott, Campbell and Cole. Nevertheless, if Arsene wants to stick to his philosophy, then he's doing it the right way At least give him credit for carrying through with his vision (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Normally Campbell and Cole are in the squad, but they just aren't fit. I can understand what Wenger is saying and I agree that a team should be about quality and not about the players' passports. If anything it'd be up to the immigr6ation department or the FA or UEFA to set the standards. The immigration department can't do much because their policy is that a player can be brought in for a working visa only if there are no other similar or better English players in the same price bracket, and if you look at how inflated prices are in the English market you begin to understand why Arsene chooses cheaper and better foreign imports. The FA haven't done anything about it, probably because it is more a legal issue than anything. UEFA however have stepped in and tried to introduce the home-grown policy where there should be a set number of home-grown players in a side. There is of course the legal implication with bringing in such a rule, and I anticipate the G14 to be the ones legally contesting such a decision once the rule is implemented. Also, according to the policy, a player is technically English after being trained by the club's academy for 3 years or longer. By the time the policy is implemented, many of Arsenal's foreignly-recruited youths will have been at the club for sometime, making them English. Arsenal do suffer on the field of course, as they have no physical influence, in a league that prides itself on it's fast pace and bone-crunching tackles. They are a team of technique, and due to that philosophy, they risk being dominated by the more aggressive and physical teams such as Bolton, Chelsea and Everton. Also, you can make the case that a team based purely on technique does not hold any British influence. Seriously, the Premier League is hardly renowned for technical or tactical skill (only recently has that image started to waver, but it only applies to the 'bigger' clubs as the 'smaller' ones are still rough as hell) Personally, I think Arsenal are overdoing it by bringing in too many foreign imports. They are even selling players such as Bentley! If you want English representation you have Walcott, Campbell and Cole. Nevertheless, if Arsene wants to stick to his philosophy, then he's doing it the right way At least give him credit for carrying through with his vision (Y) the immigration department can't do anything because most the players are EU nationals and thus are entitled to work in this country. when you look at some of the imports though it's disgraceful especially considering the wealth of talents Arsenal had in their youth system which they ignored and subsequently disposed of . . . it's not about the style of play. it's about having some kind of representation of the place, region or even country. having only three real British players in the squad of a supposedly English team is frankly disgusting. what are they giving to the community and how do they represent it? why should they even be called Arsenal when they are now a team of mercenaries? they almost have no right to this name since they have no link to it any more how is the heritage and tradition of Arsenal being carried on? where is the real passion? i was initially against the idea of quotas of home-grown players but now teams have gone too far. i'd rather that English football regressed (if it indeed would ) and that the players were at least representative of their clubs, that they understood the histories, traditions and rivalries of the clubs and that there was real passion than have a league full of possibly ( ) more 'skillful' players that lack true passion and understanding that don't represent their fans or club's traditions. the style that Arsenal play and the "vision" of Arsene Wenger is irrelevant to the debate in my eyes . . . i personally feel that Arsene Wenger is flittering away the history and tradition of Arsenal football club . . . being a Spurs fan, Arsenal obviously aren't my favourite football club but i really do feel sorry for the fans and for the illustrious history of that football club i'm not criticising just because it's Arsenal. i was just as annoyed when Chelsea fielded a similar team several years ago in a match dubbed by the papers "Coventry versus the Rest of The World". i'm even more annoyed that Arsene Wenger then implied that Alan Pardew's statement was bordering on racism <_< . . . you may well agree and you may well want more of a "spectacle" but i personally value the histories, rivalries and traditions of England's top clubs and i think that it would be really very sad to lose these from the English game . . . feel free to disagree or whatever . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOCHO Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Finalmente Adriano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_ed Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Finalmente Adriano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_ed Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 it's not about the style of play. it's about having some kind of representation of the place, region or even country. having only three real British players in the squad of a supposedly English team is frankly disgusting. what are they giving to the community and how do they represent it? why should they even be called Arsenal when they are now a team of mercenaries? they almost have no right to this name since they have no link to it any more how is the heritage and tradition of Arsenal being carried on? where is the real passion? i was initially against the idea of quotas of home-grown players but now teams have gone too far. i'd rather that English football regressed (if it indeed would ) and that the players were at least representative of their clubs, that they understood the histories, traditions and rivalries of the clubs and that there was real passion than have a league full of possibly ( ) more 'skillful' players that lack true passion and understanding that don't represent their fans or club's traditions. the style that Arsenal play and the "vision" of Arsene Wenger is irrelevant to the debate in my eyes . . . i personally feel that Arsene Wenger is flittering away the history and tradition of Arsenal football club . . . being a Spurs fan, Arsenal obviously aren't my favourite football club but i really do feel sorry for the fans and for the illustrious history of that football club i'm not criticising just because it's Arsenal. i was just as annoyed when Chelsea fielded a similar team several years ago in a match dubbed by the papers "Coventry versus the Rest of The World". i'm even more annoyed that Arsene Wenger then implied that Alan Pardew's statement was bordering on racism <_< . . . you may well agree and you may well want more of a "spectacle" but i personally value the histories, rivalries and traditions of England's top clubs and i think that it would be really very sad to lose these from the English game . . . feel free to disagree or whatever . . . Well, I guess it depends on what you think is good enough for an English club. You could approach it from a criteon-related perspective. What exactly embodies an English club? What are the necessary criteria that must be fulfilled for a club to be deemed English? Would you prefer an English manager? An English board? English tactics? Maybe 11 English players? Maybe some other sort of limit? English fans? If you want to take the argument "down a level", would you rather Arsenal have only London born players? Surely not any Englishman can represent Arsenal, since they wouldn't understand the local area or history of the club as much as an South/North Londoner would I understand where you're coming from and to a certain extent, I agree with you, but at the moment, Arsenal have Campbell, Walcott and Cole in their ranks and that's satisfactory, i guess...for now :knives: I mean, could you seriously say that Henry and Vieira aren't anymore a part of Arsenal than Campbell for instance? They live and breathe Arsenal and know everything about the club's history and traditions. They, arguably, have done more for Arsenal than Campbell or Cole have. Traditions, rivalries and histories are created by teams as much as they are carried on. For instance, with a few more years of TLC, you'll start to see a rivalry between Chelsea and Liverpool, if it isn't obvious enough already. It may not be the best of ideas in anyone's interest that football in England should regress backwards for the sake of tradition. It shouldn't matter who is in the team, as long as they have the ability and intention of carrying a club's traditions and values forward, the by all means they should be considered just as valuable as an Englishmen. Henry and Vieira are prime examples. Also, with globalisation and technology melding the world together, populations are getting mixed more and more. It makes sense (to me at least) that the football pitch should reflect the outside world. Foreign players can also attract more fans from different parts of the world (I just hate the bandwagon fans <_< but if they're willing to support a team and learn about it's history then they're good supporters by my book) Well, I'm not sure if I believe everything I wrote down, but I'm just "playing" the devil's advocate :evil: And all seriousness aside, you call Arsenal a bunch of mercenaries and ask what link they have with Arsenal's tradition? The fact that Arsenal were formed from an ammo and weapons production factory... quite fitting don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 i have no problem with foreign players. i just think it ridiculous that a coach can discriminate against home produced players, import a load of often lack-lustre cronies and field a team which is not at all representative and don't have the right nor understanding to play for the club . . . i think that a home grown player has this passion, commitment and love for the club instilled in them at an early age and that palyers from the respective country have an understanding of the game which is difficult for another to pick up . . . on a side note, having a specified region for a club would actually reinvigorate the game and would restore local pride. however, it is not really feasible and would annoy many clubs so would never happen ultimately the fans will decide whether the club are representative of them and will, i think, eventually get fed up and either move back to lower division teams where there is true passion or will move over to another sport until english football is reclaimed. it really is losing it's soul . . . about the Liverpool-Chelsea thing. it will never develop into a 'real' rivalry or 'real' derby. it wouldn't be within a million miles of a Man Utd-Man City match, a Merseyside derby, a Newcastle-Sunderland match, a Sheffield derby, a Liverpool-Man Utd clash, a Rangers-Celtic match or, dare i say it, a Spurs-Arsenal match. it could be a standout fixture but never a real derby. Sol Campbell isn't Arsenal. as you know, he's from Tottenham originally <_< he didn't go to Arsenal because he believes in the club. he went because he too is a mercenary and he thought that he could have more money and possibly success there . . . i would suggest that Ashley Cole is the only 'real' Arsenal player i mean, he's been raised with these traditions and this understanding. i don't think that you can necessarily pick up that kind of belief or passion over a five year stint at a club i think that it takes more time for this kind of love to grow Henry and Vieira have probably done more for Arsenal than the other players but it doesn't mean that they necessarily believe in the club, have true loyalty to it or give the passion that a real fan would give. Just look at some of the half-hearted players there . . . there are no Tony Adams, Lee Dixons, Nigel Winterburns, Steve Boulds, David Seamans, Paul Mersons, Ray Parlours or Ian Wrights any more tradition should be preserved. i see no need for football to regress especially in a world where there is such an emphasis on the youth side of the game and different coaching tecnhiques. i see no need for it to whizz supposedly 'forward' at such a pace that club's lose their identities lots of players don't appreciate the club's history though and they just see clubs as stepping stones or play for the money i mean look at the Arsenal team, i think that it's laughable to think that every player is absolutely commited to the club and that every player has the kind of passion that Tony Adams and David Seaman once lent Arsenal. yes, globalisation is taking place and populations are mixing. i don't see anything wrong with that. in fact i live in one of the most multicultural areas in the UK . . . the fact is that that football pitch isn't a 'representation of the world.' i think that multiculturalism is good to an extent but when the previous culture at the club is nigh on obliterated and there is no culture or tradition what is the club any more? it's not a definite entity . . . in that case why should the club have any link to any locale? they're a global team, they're not really Arsenal that's something that annoys me: the purchase of foreign players JUST to try and increase support abroad or among some sections of society. it's ridiculous and i don't think that clubs should divert their efforts accordingly. i'm not saying that clubs shouldn't have foreign fans. i just mean that clubs should focus their attentions on success on the field and on providing a spectacle not on increasing the amount that goes into their coffers. i mean, the fans pay for the club so the club should look after and give something back to the fans . . . people over here are getting fed up with the clubs using and abusing fans . . . one of the reasons why crowd attendances are falling for some teams . . . the club needs to look after their existing fans and give them the success that they deserve rather than spend their efforts trying to cynically increase their fan base . . . hope that made some kind of sense . . . sorry about the length Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_ed Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Sorry about referring to Sol being an Arsenal player, I meant Cole Maybe you can't capture all what it means to be an Arsenal player born-and-bred in London, but I don't think Henry would be far off. He has shown loyalty and passion for the cause on many occassions. He will run balls down and fight for the team and the club. If Henry was a mercenary then he would've left Arsenal a long time ago. Even now, he is staying with Arsenal when he could be playing for a team that has a higher chance of winning the Champions' League. Does being a local player really make a player better? Sure they show passion and commitment, but is there really loyalty in today's game? Steven Gerrard nearly left last summer, and if not for Rafa inproving the team I'd bet my house on him leaving this summer. Owen left for the (supposedly) golden lands of Madrid. Only rarely do you find a player as loyal as Henry. Side note: the Liverpool-Chelsea thing would be more like an Arsenal-Manyoo thing. I didn't intend to call it a derby, but it'd definitely be one of 'those' rivalries. Also, *cough* London derbies are crap Like it or not, football clubs in today's society are also businesses. They need to run like a business in order to make money. There is no business sense in buying a player that is English and costs a lot, when you can buy one from overseas that is just as good and for cheaper. For example, out of Eboue, Fabregas and Van Persie, could you find an English talent that costs the same price and is just as good? You'd be hard pressed to find some, so why waste too much time and resources looking for them if you know the market doesn't have many? The multicultural part of my argument can also be integrated into the business side of things, as appealing to different markets expands your fan base, and hence increases your income, which in turn means it's good for business. I think, as a business and a team, clubs need to evolve to the pressures from the external world. At the moment, business-wise, teams should be tapping into more markets and appealing to neutrals. It is the right direction if you want your team to have world-wide recognition. If ever the fans decide to revolt against the team for being too non-English or whatnot, then the club should also take heed and evolve to the fans' needs (as they provide a large part of the income). The club should do what it must to survive and be successful, if they can maintain values and traditions along the way then all the better! Another thing is that Arsenal do not exactly have a great academy. West Ham does. And the talent that floods from their academy, if not sold, make up the backbone of their team. They are in a much better position to say something with regards to the current issue when viewed from such a perspective. However, I am not supporting the Arsenal position too much, as it is possible for them to scour more/harder for young English talent. They just don't make the effort, that's all :trout: Right, if that doesn't make sense...then you can sod off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 i'd bet you five of your Australian dollars that Henry will leave at the end of the season . . . he has shown some loyalty and has done well but he is but a shadow of Tony Adams for example (with regards to his commitment to the cause) i didn't say that a player is better because he is local. i just said that i think that if he has supported the club all his life and has such an inexorable link with the club then he embodies the spirit which the fans have and understands what it is to play for your team. a commited local player is more of a figure head, is a badge for your club and is someone the fans can relate to . . . :persuazn: . . . most derbies are fairly boring really Spurs have been so unlucky in big matches for the last couple of seasons <_< football teams are now businesses but it does not mean that they should not show loyalty to their fans and that they should erase the team's memory and change its appearance beyond all recognition. you can get some steals from abroad but look at some of the crap that Arsene Wenger has trawled in preferentially to young English talents and players already at Arsenal who he has just discarded like an old sock <_< to be fair the multicultural element doesn't really have any weight in this argument in my eyes i thought that was one of the reasons why we had the World Cup it can be good to expand the support of the club but if that means selling the current fans and youth of the country down the river then it's absolutely wrong. the cynicism underlying much of it also irritates me . . . *cough*the purchase of Owen by Real*cough* i'm not saying that the fans should revolt because a club is "too non-English." that inference is fanciful. i'm saying that when a club loses its identity so rapidly and in such a way then people get fed up and feel alienated almost. the fact is that Arsenal don't need to import the hordes of obscure foreign players that they do to be successful and by doing this they punish youth players and create a team devoid of real passion and real loyalty quite apt that Sol Campbell is there then West Ham's academy is not bad but nor is Arsenal's when you look at it . . . David Bentley, Matthew Upson, Jermaine Pennant, Jerome Thomas, Stuart Taylor, Steven Sidwell, etc . . . and that's just over a couple of seasons :| many teams would just dream of a bunch like that coming through the fact is that West Ham nurture their young players and give them a go rather than discard them untested . . . the only British player to come through under Arsene Wenger has been Ashley Cole. in ten years, one young British player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 looks like Ballack has chosen Chelsea:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4804244.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouazizi Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Ballack's chosen Chelsea, but whyyyy did Chelsea chose Ballack?! It's beyond me - he's such an average player... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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