You can't hope for your movement to be credible if you're not logical with its definitions.

 

You can convince fanatics or fearful people. But not rational people.

13 hours ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

 

The insistence on historical accuracy is very limited in its scope. It's usually just about race and/or gender.

 

Whilst there are like 101 issues with every single historical show that go far beyond just those two things.

Like if you are truly a stickler for authenticity, why would you watch Rome in English?

 

 

 

You know, let's forget about all the argument, etc. Let me ask you this: what is your goal when you rebuke other people's voice and shift the blame like this?

 

You're an educated, cultivated guy, so what's your goal?

 

I can tell you what my goal is: depoliticize movies and make them for everybody, like they were ten years ago. What's yours really and what does this culture war bring?  Do you think people's lives will be affected by a movement that distorts reality to please a cult that promotes a tainted and twisted vision of justice?

11 hours ago, Enrico_sw said:

 

I don't follow American politics every day, so I don't get the reference, friend. Sorry if your comedic effect falls flat

 

I thought DeSantis was good at exposing the hypocrisy of the ultra-wealthy people of Martha's vineyard. I dunno all the details, but I can't stand wealthy folks belittling regular people for their supposed lack of solidarity, while themselves can't stand the presence of migrants for one day (and called the army).

 

But maybe I missed something (the left card is an immunity totem?)

 

DeSantis probably used tax money to break the law with his Martha's Vineyard stunt, so if that is political genius I guess we have a different definition of the word.

 

I know that over here any Governor who uses tax payer money that way would instantly end his or her political career.

11 hours ago, Enrico_sw said:

 

Sorry, but this doesn't make sense. You say there are 101 issues with authenticity, yet, you're ready to throw 99 of them to garbage, because 2 of them make you feel uncomfortable. Say what?

 

 

 

This is a very weak argument. If you can't abide to one historical detail for obvious reasons (though I wouldn't be against a show in latin with subtitles), it doesn't mean you should throw historical accuracy altogether.

 

You should fight for historical authenticity on all fronts. Also, the blame-shifting tactics is getting old now: the ones obsessed with gender/race are movie producers (who bent the knee to the woke cult). 

 

My point is that I cannot take seriously anyone who is supposedly a stickler for authenticity, but the only authenticity he/she ever complains about are matters of sex and race.

Each historical drama gets so much wrong. The bad ones are even ridiculously poor in getting even the basics right (e.g. medieval settings where a character is wearing a garment with a zipper ).

 

11 hours ago, Enrico_sw said:

 

 

You know, let's forget about all the argument, etc. Let me ask you this: what is your goal when you rebuke other people's voice and shift the blame like this?

 

You're an educated, cultivated guy, so what's your goal?

 

I can tell you what my goal is: depoliticize movies and make them for everybody, like they were ten years ago. What's yours really and what does this culture war bring?  Do you think people's lives will be affected by a movement that distorts reality to please a cult that promotes a tainted and twisted vision of justice?

 

I honestly have better things to do with my life than worry about some online "culture war". I just abhor hypocrisy and much prefer honesty. So when people complain about too many black people in a fantasy show I would prefer they are honest about why it bothers them instead of hiding behind "authenticity" or some other bullshit.

At least have the courage of your convictions.

 

Secondly, Hollywood has ALWAYS changed the races of historical characters, it's not like they have started doing this in the last decade. That's how you can have John Wayne playing Genghis Khan or say Elizabeth Taylor playing Cleopatra.

On the subject of Cleopatra, the black community has claimed her as well, but it makes no sense either.

She was Macedonian Greek which makes it very likely she was Mediterranean in appearance.

 

But I digress, the reality remains that race-switching characters is almost as old as Hollywood itself.

The only thing that has happened more recently is that whereas this was primarily white actors playing non-white characters in the past, we now occasionally also have a non-white actor playing a white character.

13 hours ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

 

DeSantis probably used tax money to break the law with his Martha's Vineyard stunt, so if that is political genius I guess we have a different definition of the word.

 

I know that over here any Governor who uses tax payer money that way would instantly end his or her political career.

 

You know Schopenhauer's "Postulate What Has to Be Proved", right? That's what I see here.

 

What's your legal proof that he broke the law? He sent illegal immigrants (who broke the law in the first place - that's not judgemental, it's a fact) to a place that self-labels as "safe haven for migrants". You have a funny definition of breaking the law

 

Was it legal for MV's people to call the army to exfiltrate the migrants? (But it's OK when the left does it, right?)

 

BTW, it doesn't mean that all this isn't a tragedy for these immigrants. The debate on immigration is not black and white.

 

In any case, American politics are annoying and I dunno all this story's details, but the false outrage made by the media owned by billionaires (like the WaPo or NY Times) is preoccupying. It seems so easy for predators to download information in the mind of people whose critical thinking has been shattered.

Remember this?

 

Of course, it's a fiction... but as we say over here "la réalité dépasse parfois la fiction"....

 

 

13 hours ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

My point is that I cannot take seriously anyone who is supposedly a stickler for authenticity, but the only authenticity he/she ever complains about are matters of sex and race.

 

Who is this strawman you're talking about? This person you manufactured is a mirage, a chimera.

 

The very real and influential problem is producers who consistently do race-swapping and gender-swapping as part of a submission to a political cult called Woke. Just like producers did everything to please Mccarthy's goons during the witch hunts. The woke embodied McCarthyism in the past years. It's a fact.

 

The Woke are obsessed with gender and race. You can't shift the blame on people who want to clean fictions from ideology.

 

13 hours ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

Each historical drama gets so much wrong. The bad ones are even ridiculously poor in getting even the basics right (e.g. medieval settings where a character is wearing a garment with a zipper ).

 

So, there are many inaccuracies already. You think that's a justification to allow new ones? My proposition is to tackle ALL the historical inaccuracies. It would be a progress. That would be "progressive", literally.

I shall add that these new inaccuracies are not innocent, they are a fuel for the politicization of fictions. This is poison. The fact that people fight over these things is a proof.

 

But don't shift the blame. Hollywood is the ones that introduced this race/gender obsssion. They are the predators in all this.

1 minute ago, Enrico_sw said:

So, there are many inaccuracies already. You think that's a justification to allow new ones? My proposition is to tackle ALL the historical inaccuracies. It would be a progress. That would be "progressive", literally.

 

BTW, what you seem to propose is a levelling down, while I propose a levelling up.

 

Civilization is here to by level us up, not down.

14 hours ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

I honestly have better things to do with my life than worry about some online "culture war". I just abhor hypocrisy and much prefer honesty. So when people complain about too many black people in a fantasy show I would prefer they are honest about why it bothers them instead of hiding behind "authenticity" or some other bullshit.

At least have the courage of your convictions.

 

You read people's minds, do you? You know what they think even if they don't say it, now? Come on, you're smarter than that.

 

You read Hannah Arendt's books on totalitarianism, haven't you? Accusing people of things they never said is the premises of totalitarianism.

 

Most of western justice systems are based on facts, proofs and statements, to protect us from the arbitrary of the judges.

 

Claiming to be the "good guys" doesn't give you the rights to judge people on what they never said. That's not justice, that's inquisition.

14 hours ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

I just abhor hypocrisy and much prefer honesty.

 

Statements like that are very interesting. I can try a few ones:

- I abhor Stalinist show trials and much prefer honesty.

- I abhor levelling down and much prefer levelling up

- I abhor shifting the blame and much prefer blaming the instigators.

- I abhor billionaires distorting reality and much prefer historical accuracy.

etc.

 

 

BTW, the worst Stalinist purge was against Tukhachevsky. This guy was a military genius and Stalin (who was an extremely bad military strategist) coldly executed him, because he was jealous of him (and Stalin miserably failed in Poland).

 

The Stalinist purges weakened the red army A LOT, just before WW2

9 hours ago, Enrico_sw said:

 

You know Schopenhauer's "Postulate What Has to Be Proved", right? That's what I see here.

 

What's your legal proof that he broke the law? He sent illegal immigrants (who broke the law in the first place - that's not judgemental, it's a fact) to a place that self-labels as "safe haven for migrants". You have a funny definition of breaking the law

 

 

 

Those people were lured under false pretenses. That's why San Antonio PD has opened an investigation.

 

As for the rest of this discussion, my only opinion is that Governors should try not to break the law. A controversial opinion, I know!

 

I notice that you haven't addressed my point about race-switching in Hollywood being almost as old as Hollywood movies themselves.

13 hours ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

 

Those people were lured under false pretenses. That's why San Antonio PD has opened an investigation.

 

As for the rest of this discussion, my only opinion is that Governors should try not to break the law. A controversial opinion, I know!

 

 

Prosecuting someone doesn't mean he's guilty. Ever heard of the presumption of innocence? It's a key part of our democracies. The only places it's been scratched are totalitarian countries.

 

Maybe China and Khmer rouge's Cambodia are your models, but not mine

13 hours ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

I notice that you haven't addressed my point about race-switching in Hollywood being almost as old as Hollywood movies themselves.

 

I noticed that you addressed zero of my points, except the questions on what you want, whose answer was that you can read ppl's minds.

 

I addressed all your points except this one, but I have zero problems answering any questions (which doesn't seem to be the case for you ), so here goes: Wayne playing Genghis Khan was ridiculous. Liz Taylor's Cleopatra was somewhat better though perfectible.

 

But those are two examples, not enough to make a generalization. In any case, whether your generalization is true or not doesn't matter: past producers' inaccuracies doesn't justify today's producers inaccuracies.

 

I want some levelling up, not levelling down (one of my points you never addressed BTW, but I'm sure you will this time )

12 minutes ago, Enrico_sw said:

 

Prosecuting someone doesn't mean he's guilty. Ever heard of the presumption of innocence? It's a key part of our democracies. The only places it's been scratched are totalitarian countries.

 

Maybe China and Khmer rouge's Cambodia are your models, but not mine

 

Do you think that that San Antonio PD would bother opening an investigation if they had absolutely no reason to believe that things weren't above board?

 

If you are fine with politicians using taxpayer money for political stunts, that is up to you, I find it distasteful and frankly far beneath the level of seriousness I would expect from even a local politician, let alone a Governor.

Just now, SympathysSilhouette said:

If you are fine with politicians using taxpayer money for political stunts, that is up to you

 

I never ever said that. That's a cheap strawman argument. Using sophistic tactics is beneath you. You're better than that. Please stop this.

 

3 minutes ago, SympathysSilhouette said:

Do you think that that San Antonio PD would bother opening an investigation if they had absolutely no reason to believe that things weren't above board?

 

Once again: a) presumption of innonce and b) I don't know all the details of this story and American politics are boring.