Charlie Vickers

[Jade Bahr]

Love this edit.

 

One Ring to rule them all,

One Ring to find them,

One Ring to bring them all,

and in the darkness bind them,

In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

[Jade Bahr]

I almost fainted in fear for Celebrimbor when he had the guts to finally push Sauron away (literally) and Sauron was like

 

(for cruel context)

Spoiler

 

but suddenly he was all calm

 

and I was loudly like

 

also this parallel???!!! *chefs kiss

 

even though I'm painfully aware the worst is yet to come 🫣

Spoiler

 

I think his performance of Annatar is even heartwarming haters of the show right now because goddamn he's so so so good I would claim he's pulling of one of the finest most fascinating performances of a tv villain. If you had resistments till this point it's worth the watch just for the characterisation of Sauron/Halbrand/Annatar I can't remember having such a great time to watch an inexperienced actors work lately @Lilja K

[Jade Bahr]

*for science

 

🎀 SAURON'S HAIR BOW APPRECIATION ⋆𐙚₊˚⊹♡

The Rings of Power 2.06 "Where is He?"

[Cult Icon]

On 9/16/2024 at 6:00 AM, Lilja K said:

 

As far as I understand from the lore, he was attractive before he became evil. But even after that, he could take on an attractive appearance. Correct me if I'm wrong @Cult Icon

Yes- he was seductive/attractive which is how he manipulated them all to make the rings.

[Lilja K]

On 9/21/2024 at 12:28 PM, Jade Bahr said:

I think his performance of Annatar is even heartwarming haters of the show right now because goddamn he's so so so good I would claim he's pulling of one of the finest most fascinating performances of a tv villain. If you had resistments till this point it's worth the watch just for the characterisation of Sauron/Halbrand/Annatar I can't remember having such a great time to watch an inexperienced actors work lately @Lilja K

 

As far as I understand, the show does not show the whole story of Sauron. He was already evil when Galadriel met him in a "civilian" disguise, right? It would be great to see a show dedicated to Sauron. 

[Cult Icon]

On 9/16/2024 at 6:11 AM, Jade Bahr said:

Yeah that's correct but still 😅 For years I associated a lidless eye with him 😄

 

11 hours ago, Lilja K said:

 

As far as I understand, the show does not show the whole story of Sauron. He was already evil when Galadriel met him in a "civilian" disguise, right? It would be great to see a show dedicated to Sauron. 

 

That would be correct as in the novels (Fellowship, Twin Tower, Return of the King, and lore history Silmarillion) Sauron is mainly a moral philosophical concept (Catholic) than being a satan-like demi-god character.

 

He is talked about but rarely 'shown'.  I do not think it is correct (Tolkien's intention) to portray him as an anti-hero or a type of humanoid villain from a point of view perspective like in a Sauron show.  In a way he and the "Ring to rule them all" are the same thing, the concept of temptation for infinite and immoral greed & power. 

 

This metaphysical force binds the story of the Ring together like a glue.  So Sauron is in the books a type of backdrop with a backstory.

 

In the book Heart of Darkness (Conrad) and its related film Apocalypse Now (adaptation) the character of Kurtz is used in similar fashion to Sauron, as an overarching moral concept about Evil.

[Jade Bahr]

22 hours ago, Lilja K said:

He was already evil when Galadriel met him in a "civilian" disguise, right?

I mean... yeah kinda but I think TRoP Halbrand is a bit more complex than simply evil. Annatar for example is remarkably uncompromising and emotionless compared to Halbrand. Halbrand wasn't just hot he was likeable while Annatar is terrifying. He's nothing but lying and gaslighting while Halbrand carried at least some sort of truth somewhere in heart and soul (I mean he fought side by side with Galadriel for the same cause and both felt some sort of connection to the other one) even though he hid his true self and his motives were... a bit questionable.

[Jade Bahr]

21 hours ago, Lilja K said:

It would be great to see a show dedicated to Sauron. 

I would LOVE that but pls don't recast Charlie Vickers 😋

 

Also I'm not sure how much material there is about Saurons "origin story". Tolkien fans are already whining TRoP is too less Tolkien lol

[Lilja K]

2 minutes ago, Jade Bahr said:

I mean... yeah kinda but I think TRoP Halbrand is a bit more complex than simply evil. Annatar for example is remarkably uncompromising and emotionless compared to Halbrand. Halbrand wasn't just hot he was likeable while Annatar is terrifying. He's nothing but lying and gaslighting while Halbrand carried at least some sort of truth somewhere in heart and soul (I mean he fought side by side with Galadriel for the same cause and bot felt some sort of connection to the other one) even though he hid his true self and his motives were... a bit questionable.

 

But they're both the same person🤔

[Jade Bahr]

4 minutes ago, Lilja K said:

 

But they're both the same person🤔

I think a character can not only develop further but also backwards and so can good and/or evil. I think with Galadriel rejecting him despite their "cosmic connection" the evil in him kinda shifted got more comprehensive. He's a really really well written interesting and multi-layered character imo. Maybe not what Tolkien had in mind but I like it.

 

[Lilja K]

1 minute ago, Jade Bahr said:

I would LOVE that but pls don't recast Charlie Vickers 😋

 

Yeah, I meant with him

 

2 minutes ago, Jade Bahr said:

Also I'm not sure how much material there is about Saurons "origin story". Tolkien fans are already whining TRoP is too less Tolkien lol

 

My friend hates this show in general, but he likes Charlie's Sauron.

[Jade Bahr]

1 hour ago, Lilja K said:

My friend hates this show in general, but he likes Charlie's Sauron.

Yeah he really is the standout 💯

 

 

I also remember watching the LotR movies as a kid and how I was scared of pretty much everything (the Orks, Saruman, Gollum, the Nazguls) but Sauron LOL I mean it's very easy to claim someone is evil again and again with no further details nor personality nor own identity or motives. That makes movie Sauron so boring imo. He's boring because he's hardly an entity. He's more a concept, and at the end everything about him rests on what the characters tell us about him: that he's extra evil, very cruel, a tyrant, obsessed by the One Ring, yada yada. But since he's no more than this giant eye on a tower, he never becomes tangible. We believe he's evil because that's what everybody says and also because of what his unpaid employees do, but he never gets to do anything himself, so we don't really see it.

 

In TRoP, however, he may not be literally on fire, but his evilness and his cunningness are palpable in season 2. I mean, the way he treats Celebrimbor?! If that's not sheer cruelty I don't know what it is, and it will get even worse in the episodes to come. Sauron doesn't take no for an answer. He tortures Celebrimbor, not physically but psychologically to bend him to his will. Since day 1, he lies constantly to Celebrimbor, flatters him, tells him what he wants to hear, gaslights him, isolates him from his people, nearly drives him to madness and only at the end, threatens to destroy his city if he doesn't do what he wants...

 

And as for the scary side of Sauron: Charlie proves to be an excellent actor when he manages to express his moments of contained rage through his micro expressions. For example, every time Celebrimbor resists him, his face changes enough for the audience to see he would tear the poor mans eyes out if he could, but it doesn't last long, blink and you miss it! Same in the last episose 6, when King Durin refused to deliver more mithril to him; it was so obvious he wanted to kill the old man on the spot, but he's patient, he'll let the Balrog do it for him. Because yes, he's vicious and likes to keep his hands clean, so he tells animals do the job for him when he can!

 

But it's there, and we already got to see a glimpse of the sheer fury that can possess him when he loses control: in Numenor, when he beat the shit out of the men who had mocked him, and on the raft when Galadriel rejected him. That was probably just a forestate of what we can expect from the next seasons.

 

I love that TRoP made Sauron tangible. I can see the threat he is now. I understand why everyone during the LoTR is terrified at the idea that he may come back.

[Jade Bahr]

35 minutes ago, Lilja K said:

My friend hates this show in general

Did he explain why?

[Jade Bahr]

The fact that muddy Halbrand and clean Annatar are so different not only in behaving but looks....

 

 

... is kinda genius.

 

It's like the more clean he's from the outside the more rotten he's from the inside.

[Lilja K]

14 hours ago, Jade Bahr said:

Did he explain why?

 

He doesn't like Galadriel's acting and the way she is portrayed in the show. He described her as bratty and unlikeable. He's aware she is much younger and less mature here, btw. He also doesn't like dialogues (not all tho). Quite common reasons among the haters of the show.

[Cult Icon]

1 hour ago, Lilja K said:

 

He doesn't like Galadriel's acting and the way she is portrayed in the show. He described her as bratty and unlikeable. He's aware she is much younger and less mature here, btw. He also doesn't like dialogues (not all tho). Quite common reasons among the haters of the show.

 

Galadriel is supposed to be already ancient and I saw her as primarily as a high official rather than an individual warrior.  So the direction the showrunners took with her was clearly an attempt to make her more interesting than someone sitting in an ivory tower and issuing orders.

[Lilja K]

3 hours ago, Cult Icon said:

 

Galadriel is supposed to be already ancient and I saw her as primarily as a high official rather than an individual warrior.  So the direction the showrunners took with her was clearly an attempt to make her more interesting than someone sitting in an ivory tower and issuing orders.

 

Someone defended the show, saying that the younger Galadriel was less mature in the books too. How true is this?

[Cult Icon]

3 hours ago, Lilja K said:

 

Someone defended the show, saying that the younger Galadriel was less mature in the books too. How true is this?

 

I would say less mature in terms of a certain aspect of (to Tolkien- religious) wisdom as it can be said that Galadriel was more 'worldly' (power hungry and active in the world as a leader) before the events of Fellowship but once Frodo encounters her she is one has already given up on the fallen world (like real Christians and Buddhists do) and is ready to leave it (to the Grey havens, which symbolizes the afterlife ).  Naturally she has already given up on worldly power (that is why she rejects the temptation of the Ring). 

 

Her mind is one of one who is ready to leave this veil of tears, this great suffering behind. Which is a very religious sort of characterization. 

 

Galadriel isn't in the books very much and like Sauron her deeds are talked about in the lore history/notes (Silmarillion) so its open to interpretation/adaptation.   

 

There is a lot of hate I noticed from 1. Tolkien purists who worship the texts and want everything to be 100% the same 2. Christians who have co-opted the work, see it as a Christian allegory and find Amazon's effort offensive. 3. Culture war people from the Right like Critical Drinker, right wing pundits and many other content creators who hate it mainly because they hate the people who made it, and their style of writing & directing.

[Lilja K]

28 minutes ago, Cult Icon said:

 

I would say less mature in terms of a certain aspect of (to Tolkien- religious) wisdom as it can be said that Galadriel was more 'worldly' (power hungry and active in the world as a leader) before the events of Fellowship but once Frodo encounters her she is one has already given up on the fallen world (like real Christians and Buddhists do) and is ready to leave it (to the Grey havens, which symbolizes the afterlife ).  Naturally she has already given up on worldly power (that is why she rejects the temptation of the Ring). 

 

Her mind is one of one who is ready to leave this veil of tears, this great suffering behind. Which is a very religious sort of characterization. 

 

Galadriel isn't in the books very much and like Sauron her deeds are talked about in the lore history/notes (Silmarillion) so its open to interpretation/adaptation.   

 

There is a lot of hate I noticed from 1. Tolkien purists who worship the texts and want everything to be 100% the same 2. Christians who have co-opted the work, see it as a Christian allegory and find Amazon's effort offensive. 3. Culture war people from the Right like Critical Drinker, right wing pundits and many other content creators who hate it mainly because they hate the people who made it, and their style of writing & directing.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I suppose it would really be less interesting for a wide audience to watch book Galadriel. 

[Jade Bahr]

Just some memes/parallels I find interesting and/or funny