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On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 11:32 PM, Frederick said:

Pearson is clearly potty and I'd legitimately forgotten 'RDM' existed but when you've been humiliated, disgraced, debauched and THEN managed by Eric Black, your standards loosen up a bit. Not enough for Steve Bruce, in this lifetime or the next, mind.

Call me Will Young because this post is Evergreen. 

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On 9/25/2018 at 9:52 AM, Frederick said:

Call me Will Young because this post is Evergreen. 

 

Dean Smith and John Terry should make for an intriguing mash-up, as from an outsider's perspective, it sounded like a few candidates were put off by the job seemingly coming on the proviso that Terry be appointed assistant manager. Smith certainly had Brentford scoring goals for fun though, they looked to be on the verge of doing a Bournemouth (albeit without the ridiculously minted Russian owners to oversee things) and will probably still be there or thereabouts come May.

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No surprise that Jose is out. I didn't think he was a great choice from the start. To be fair, I'm not a big Jose fan.

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On 12/18/2018 at 12:59 PM, Frederick said:

I've made it through the first four episodes, @Michael*. Come talk to me about it when you're ready.

 

It's a bit of a mix-up of feelings really, but there's no question that the documentary captures exactly how and why we ended up where we are today. Ellis Short is cast as the villain of the piece of course, which might be a little harsh, because he could easily have come out of it quite well had he given an interview saying that he'd been advised badly and couldn’t justify ploughing any more money in. Doubly so considering how much he’d already invested in a revolving door of players, managers and directors. In the end, I suppose you'd have to say that he did right by us by cancelling the debts. 

 

That being said, Donald and Methven have shown far more business savvy in six months than Short showed in most of his spell as chairman, and our pursuit of Ross McCormack highlighted that most clearly for me. If there was no chance of us paying close to the market rate for McCormack (I think I'm right in thinking that he cost Villa upwards of £10m?) then we should have had other options to pursue on deadline day, and that should have been obvious to someone in Bain's position. Compare that to our interest in Mo Eisa earlier this year, when we were priced out of a deal he went on to join Bristol City, while we signed an alternative in Charlie Wyke a week later.

 

Despite all that, Bain actually came across as far more likeable than I thought. He cut a comical figure at times, out of his depth and on an astronomical salary, but his reactions to certain things, like the Rodwell debacle (in front of a surprised Ashley Fletcher, who’d just signed) could scarcely have been more in tune with the average Sunderland fan. He obviously had some investment in his position with our club, and clearly felt the pain of things going as badly as they did.

 

What was your take, Fred? Did you see things differently watching as a non-Sunderland fan?

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On 12/19/2018 at 12:15 AM, jkjk said:

No surprise that Jose is out. I didn't think he was a great choice from the start. To be fair, I'm not a big Jose fan.

 

The Mourinho philosophy is fine in a "if we're winning then who cares" kind of way but when things start to unravel, a bit of honesty should always kick in, only it never seems to with Jose. I thought after his sacking from Chelsea that if he'd done a bit of soul searching about his part in what went wrong, he could have led United back to the top. Instead the United job seemed to take his ego to another level. The only real surprise is that it was allowed to carry on for so long.

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1 hour ago, Michael* said:

The Mourinho philosophy is fine in a "if we're winning then who cares" kind of way but when things start to unravel, a bit of honesty should always kick in, only it never seems to with Jose. I thought after his sacking from Chelsea that if he'd done a bit of soul searching about his part in what went wrong, he could have led United back to the top. Instead the United job seemed to take his ego to another level. The only real surprise is that it was allowed to carry on for so long.

 

Not to get too complex, but I don't think people like Jose ever do real soul searching (and maybe they wouldn't be successful if they did).

 

I thought United should have gone with a younger manager then and I still think that would be a good idea. That is not the trend in the Premier League though, clubs only want brand names with established reputations.

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49 minutes ago, jkjk said:

Not to get too complex, but I don't think people like Jose ever do real soul searching (and maybe they wouldn't be successful if they did).

 

I thought United should have gone with a younger manager then and I still think that would be a good idea. That is not the trend in the Premier League though, clubs only want brand names with established reputations.

 

Perhaps not real soul searching like you or I would do, but a little bit of reflection on why his second spell at Chelsea ended the way it did wouldn't have gone amiss and he'd probably have become a better manager as a consequence. When things started going wrong for him at United, he didn't appear to have an answer and didn't seem particularly interested in trying to find one. We know for sure that the era of United dominance is over now and possibly even the era of single-club dominance, although City could make the most convincing case for it if Pep chooses to stick around.

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On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 6:38 PM, Michael* said:

What was your take, Fred? Did you see things differently watching as a non-Sunderland fan?

 

I ended up bounding through the whole thing in next to no time. Probably a nightmare to cobble into episodic form, to be fair, but you can feel the editor's hand at unwelcome moments, pulling you back to something that's been hammered home pretty well already, while leaving juicy tidbits underdeveloped. Some of the fan stuff became pretty redundant (quite liked the cabbie, though) and really, how much time did we need to spend with the reserve goalie who mangled his finger? There was a bit, for instance, when Aiden McGeady was having a wee moan about Chris Coleman after the initial euphoria at his arrival had been stubbed out. Wanted a bit more of that. Also, where was John O'Shea? All we see him do is hug the tea lady after relegation, I find it hard to believe he wouldn't have been interviewed at some time during the making.  

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On 1/1/2019 at 6:14 PM, Frederick said:

I ended up bounding through the whole thing in next to no time. Probably a nightmare to cobble into episodic form, to be fair, but you can feel the editor's hand at unwelcome moments, pulling you back to something that's been hammered home pretty well already, while leaving juicy tidbits underdeveloped. Some of the fan stuff became pretty redundant (quite liked the cabbie, though) and really, how much time did we need to spend with the reserve goalie who mangled his finger? There was a bit, for instance, when Aiden McGeady was having a wee moan about Chris Coleman after the initial euphoria at his arrival had been stubbed out. Wanted a bit more of that. Also, where was John O'Shea? All we see him do is hug the tea lady after relegation, I find it hard to believe he wouldn't have been interviewed at some time during the making.  

 

It would have been interesting to hear O'Shea's thoughts, although for all the stick he took from the fans, he was always seemingly committed to not rocking the boat, in public at least. I must admit that I breathed what was an almighty sigh of relief when he left for Reading, there was a certain type of negativity attached to us for far too long, and the old guard of O'Shea, Larsson, Jones and Cattermole all played parts in it to varying degrees.

 

A minor quibble in the grand scheme of things of course, but there were moments where the editing seemed a touch skew-whiff too, like the squad board with the names of Ejaria (it had genuinely slipped my mind that the 'English Pogba' was here until the news broke of his loan at Rangers being terminated) and Fletcher on it, then showing the signings of both much later, or the a shot of the team boarding a plane, so you think they're away to Plymouth or somewhere. Nope, away to Carlisle.

 

Mostly though, I found myself wanting a bit more of the team talks, tactical organisation and scout preparation before the matches, to get a better sense of how Grayson, Stockdale and Coleman might have differed in their methods of setting up the team and their communication with the players, I imagine it would have been a fairly significant culture shock each time.

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4 hours ago, Michael* said:

 

It would have been interesting to hear O'Shea's thoughts, although for all the stick he took from the fans, he was always seemingly committed to not rocking the boat, in public at least. I must admit that I breathed what was an almighty sigh of relief when he left for Reading, there was a certain type of negativity attached to us for far too long, and the old guard of O'Shea, Larsson, Jones and Cattermole all played parts in it to varying degrees.

 

A minor quibble in the grand scheme of things of course, but there were moments where the editing seemed a touch skew-whiff too, like the squad board with the names of Ejaria (it had genuinely slipped my mind that the 'English Pogba' was here until the news broke of his loan at Rangers being terminated) and Fletcher on it, then showing the signings of both much later, or the a shot of the team boarding a plane, so you think they're away to Plymouth or somewhere. Nope, away to Carlisle.

 

Mostly though, I found myself wanting a bit more of the team talks, tactical organisation and scout preparation before the matches, to get a better sense of how Grayson, Stockdale and Coleman might have differed in their methods of setting up the team and their communication with the players, I imagine it would have been a fairly significant culture shock each time.

I agree, for all the considerable time we get with Grayson and Coleman, we rarely get any hint of the man or the plan (except that fascinating post-season chat with CC and his wife. I believe psychiatrists will be studying that footage for a long time). The total absence of the dressing room is completely inexplicable, for goodness sake, Peter Reid wrote his own legend the day he let the cameras in! If Amazon can get Pep gnashing his teeth during a 10-0 win, then who knows what jewels we were deprived of here. In general, I found the games were (as is the modern way) overly artfully shot and the incessant slow-mo of rage spewing fans veered into fetish porn at times.  

 

I never thought I'd say this but I was hungry for more Lee Cattermole. He's a terrible player and probably best typifies the malaise and stench at the core of a declining club, but I still think he 'gets it' enough that he could, intentionally or otherwise, have revealed some key truths. It is amazing how every semi-articulate player they seemed to have eyed as some kind of anchor either goes berserk (Gibson) or is just too rubbish to keep pursuing (Jason Steele). Except the good natured, guppy fingered Dutch keeper, of course. Obviously the Lewis Grabban stuff is very interesting and the tantalising three seconds we see of Jack Rodwell after that meeting had me seething with rage. The whole thing is essential viewing and must be archived by the BFI.

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On 1/3/2019 at 4:01 PM, Frederick said:

I agree, for all the considerable time we get with Grayson and Coleman, we rarely get any hint of the man or the plan (except that fascinating post-season chat with CC and his wife. I believe psychiatrists will be studying that footage for a long time). The total absence of the dressing room is completely inexplicable, for goodness sake, Peter Reid wrote his own legend the day he let the cameras in! If Amazon can get Pep gnashing his teeth during a 10-0 win, then who knows what jewels we were deprived of here. In general, I found the games were (as is the modern way) overly artfully shot and the incessant slow-mo of rage spewing fans veered into fetish porn at times.  

 

I never thought I'd say this but I was hungry for more Lee Cattermole. He's a terrible player and probably best typifies the malaise and stench at the core of a declining club, but I still think he 'gets it' enough that he could, intentionally or otherwise, have revealed some key truths. It is amazing how every semi-articulate player they seemed to have eyed as some kind of anchor either goes berserk (Gibson) or is just too rubbish to keep pursuing (Jason Steele). Except the good natured, guppy fingered Dutch keeper, of course. Obviously the Lewis Grabban stuff is very interesting and the tantalising three seconds we see of Jack Rodwell after that meeting had me seething with rage. The whole thing is essential viewing and must be archived by the BFI.

 

My perception of Coleman shifted a little afterwards, for the most part he comes across as an amiable guy who perhaps didn't deserve to be parachuted into something so disfunctional, and you could obviously see how much it meant to him when that radgie confronted him outside the stadium. However, he seemed to reach the end of his tether remarkably quickly, with the aforementioned summarisation by Aiden McGeady of his capabilities feeling like a bit of a wakeup call. I’d assumed, mainly from his stint with Wales, that Coleman was a modern, innovative coach who put hours of work into tactics and coaching the players to be better, but McGeady cut right through all that with a single withering assessment. Perhaps his particular management style just didn't work in such a toxic environment where the confidence of the squad was already totally shot.

 

Looking forward to the second series, presumably with each episode dedicated to one of our attempts to land Will Grigg.

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Oh god, Chelsea are going to bring back Mourinho aren't they.

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This rather lovely Lyon side is undoubtedly on an upward curve at the moment, but surely the more upward the curve goes, the worse their future will be as a competitive force on the European stage. The vultures, if they aren't already, will probably start circling with their cheque books soon. Monaco 2017 springs to mind.

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On 2/12/2019 at 3:56 AM, Michael* said:

Oh god, Chelsea are going to bring back Mourinho aren't they.

zidane

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On 2/23/2019 at 9:54 AM, Victoria_Justice said:

zidane

 

That would come as a surprise to me, honestly. Old 'ZZ Top' would command respect from the players but he didn't appear to fancy a rebuilding job at Real Madrid and I'm not sure he'd fancy one at Chelsea, where the scale of the task would undoubtedly be much bigger.

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