SchtoopingHer

Now theres definitely no debate about that! And sorry, Lullaby for the last accusation, but I am sure you could see why I might be confused a bit.

I thought I was on your ignore list? Also, wasn't Draco marked? And we see he still wasn't a killer and expressed feeling and remorse. And furthermore, you'll notice he was bending toward DD himself, despite the mark. And what's with the "Entirely our own" stuff? Is that meant to be witty banter because i was quoting someone else?

I am totally flooding this forum, haha. Anyhoo, in more reading, i discovered another thing worth mentioning: Yeah there has to be a reason LV tried to spare lilly. And I think that this might be what DD was trying to say (that I quoted many posts ago) when Harry interrupted him. DD was interrupted as saying (somethign like), "When he realized who voldemort had gone after, hat's the reason Snape returned-" and then harry interupts him. Perhaps the end of that sentence was, "returned before the demise of the Dark Lord," meaning that he pledged allegiance to DD BEFORE LV had failed in killing Harry. That would be a pretty strong piece of evidence for the smartest wizard alive to believe (as opposed to the shabby one).

And a couple of them two or more hours in length!! I have done that with many shows before, namely Alias season two. Man I went through that thing in two days, going back to blockbuster a few times as well. That was the pinnacle of that show, in my mind.

I think one of the most important things to realize is the light this ending casts on DD, were Snape to be evil. DD looks naive, stupid (despite his enormous brainpower), and foolish. Perhaps some of those words are the same( ), but nonetheless, Jo wouldn't let DD die looking all those things, for having trusted a man who simply said he was sorry. And furthermore, Jo has recently said in an interview that we would know more about why snape trusted DD in the next book. Seems likely DD wont go out looking like such a fool, to me . . . . ( . . . and for those unable to connect the dots, the only way is if his trust in snape looks intelligent.)

and in response to someone's critique of this theory, someone wrote: Ahh, but someone did warn DD and the Potters once LV decided who he was going after. That caused the Potters to go into hiding and to use the Fidelius Charm. I think once LV chose the Potters, Snape knew it would be the deaths of James and Harry, but he pled to save Lily. That's why LV offered not to kill her. ... And furthermore, if you ask me, its the reason Snape didn't warn others when and if he found out about it being the Potters: volde agreed to not kill Lilly (thus the reason volde stated hed spare her) and thus when he did, snape turned because of this betrayal and his love.

Another equally significant post on another website: "Apart from the fact that Snape killed DD on DD's orders, as he was running away from Harry, deflecting his spells and yelling back at him, it seemed as though Snape was mocking him, but at second thought it seems he was yelling at Harry i know when to block your spells, you need to learn to do them without speaking and even when you're using a wordless spell i know what you're doing, you need to master occlumency these things are going to be essential to Harry's success in book seven, and Snape is already telling him that he needs to master them." Ps, the person who wrote that was referencing at the end when Snape tells Potter "No no, you need to learn to shut up and close your mind" or something exactly like that (when theyre fighting/dueling).

Somebody on another boards well-stated Snape-Lily theory: Here's my theory on Snape, Lily, DD, and the Unbreakable Vow: 1. Snape had an emotionally deprived childhood. 2. Lily was one of the few people ever to stick up for Snape (via James' bullying). 3. Lily's actions were misinterpreted by Snape and he fell in love with her - normal for somebody so deprived. 4. Snape aids Lily in her potions class, either by giving her the same book Harry used or perphaps tutoring her as an excuse to spend time with her, and lets her take the credit to try to win her heart. 5. Lily ends up with James further isolating Snape from the world emotionally. 6. Snape is taken in by LV and the DE's just after this. 7. Snape spies on DD and hears part of the prophecy. 8. Snape tells LV the prophecy with the idea that LV may get rid of James for him so he can have Lily for himself. 9. Snape asks LV to leave Lily for him as a reward for his service. 10. LV goes to Godric's Hollow, kills James as Snape wanted, gives Lily the chance to live more than once but Lily's love for her son will not allow that. This is something Snape nor LV could not have foreseen as neither ever had that sort of love from their own mother or father. 11. LV kills Lily. 12. Snape is shaken by the loss of Lily and realizes what his selfish desires have caused. 13. He confesses to DD and is truly sorry. 14. DD forgives Snape and uses him against LV from that moment on. 15. Snape does hate Harry because he is a constant reminder of what he never had with Lily and what his jealousy caused to happen to her. 16. Snape wants LV defeated mainly because of Lily but now also because of DD, the other major person in his life to show him some sort of compassion. 17. Snape didn't want DD to die. 18. Snape had made the Unbreakable Vow to keep his cover but with the idea that DD and he might be able to thwart it somehow or that he would take the penalty for breaking it. 19. DD realizes that his time is drawing to a close (his hand injury highlights that) and he does not want to take the chance that Draco or Snape might suffer the penalty. 20. DD also wants to keep Snape close to LV for the battle yet to come between LV and Harry. 21. DD and Snape argue (Hagrid overhears part of it) and DD tells Snape he will carry out the Vow if it comes to it - much like he makes Harry promise to follow his instructions late in book 6. 22. DD consumes a potion he knows will probably kill him. 23. DD is feeling the effects of that potion as Draco confronts him. This is seen by him slumping down the wall, etc. 24. He wants Snape to be there so he can keep blood off Draco's hands and complete the Vow, given that he is dying anyway. This will move Snape even closer to LV. 25. He pleads with Snape to carry out his wishes which Snape does, hating the position his own choices and LV have put him in. 26. Snape reacts to Harry calling him a coward because Snape has just killed the only other person in his life who showed him any compassion, in part so Harry might succeed in his coming battle with LV. Snape resents Harry for reasons stated above but also because Harry does not realize the sacrifice that he and DD have made for him. 27. Snape will bear the guilt of DD's death and open scorn of others for awhile, feeling it is justified for his past misdeeds. 28. Harry will step into DD's shoes and forgive Snape late in book 7. This act of forgiveness (love) will be LV's undoing. Snape will probably die along with LV but be redeemed publicly in the end. I agree with virtually everything in there (save maybe the prediction about the end), with one exception: Snape didn't know that LV was going to kill the potter's. He had only heard of the month the child was born in, and not even a name. Thus, when he discovered it was the potter's and that lilly he had killed, he realized his error and confessed to DD. Thus DD's forgiveness, for there was love in his heart.

I think the notefrom RAB implied it was destroyed. What this makes me wonder is how did this other person know about it? And are there any others he or she has gotten to?

And I have no idea about the other horcruxes. That's why I was talking about Snape. its one of the only things i can wrap my head around right now, as I just finished the book today!

You might want to start acting like it then. Goodbye now. I'm done and you're on my ignore list. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i was denegrating him for acting superior for his age, thus i was being facetious myself. But nice try. And again, read more carefully. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not acting superior for my age. I made a comment based on the fact that fansites for HP, as a whole, are run by 14 to 18 year old fans. And I'd read more carefully if I were you as well, as it seems you only seem to read half of what is typed. At any rate, I have two things to say. 1) I am not discussing this further as fighting on a messageboard is a waste of time, and 2) I'm female. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> haha, sorry i called you a man. I prefer to discuss the books and theories as well. I was simply supporting my theories, I felt, and lullaby was the truly rude one. And as far as disqualifying 18 year olds opinions as well, Lullaby is 18, if my math is correct. And as far as a site run by 14-18 year olds i dont know what that has to do with it. The people who post are what counts, and if you think you are old enough and wise enough for your opinions to be valid, why couldnt someone on another site (devoted to potter) be in the same situation as you, if not older and wiser?

You might want to start acting like it then. Goodbye now. I'm done and you're on my ignore list. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i was denegrating him for acting superior for his age, thus i was being facetious myself. But nice try. And again, read more carefully.

Jo said in an interview recently (with Katie Couric, i think, to publicize the book) that, "Ravenclaw would have their day". Seems like its likely we might not yet even be aware of what it could be.

You're almost worse than anyone in here, avada. You talk about having a conversation, and simply exchanging ideas freely, yet you insult another site attempting to do the same thing. You even going so far as to insult the other HP fan site, and imply that only children have interest, when you, a supposed adult, are posting about HP on a site yourself. In addition, the fact that I'm older than you, (which, by your accounting, should therefore make me ignore your opinions) makes it all the more laughable to me.

Please, avada, I am the one trying to make valid arguments and backup my beliefs with evidence, he is the one going "Wrong" and "Stuff u are using as something is nothing. just filler" These arent arguments, theyre the examples of unintelligent discussion - not what I've been writing. And I was simply linking along the site for anyone interested, I discovered the site and came here to post the link, only to discover Lullaby's response. Thus my response. And I never called you wrong. I have said in virtually every post I could be wrong, and even said in most sentences, "I think", clearing delineating the difference between supposed fact and conjecture.

Okay buddy, whatever you say. But I just discovered a 70 page thread on an actual harry potter fansite that is pinned at the top, and there a literally thousands of people who agree with me (The link to the forum, where "Who is Snape Loyal To?" is pinned at the top). So believe what you will. I have my backup. And just as a sidenote, as I have proven a few posts ago, you arent the most careful of readers, so maybe you ought to reread my posts a couple more times before you try to comment. You wouldnt want to look stupid again.

If it has just started over there, just wait. It gets really great around episode four, and just gets better and better. "The best show on tv bar none" is totally right.

That second pic of the first post of the miami pics is really hot. WIsh we had a few more of those pics in HQ.

And another thing, if Snape were really as high in the ranks as he made Bella and Narcisaa believe (he said of course he knew the plan, volde trusted him) don't you think he would have known about it on the night it happened (instead of simply being in his office), at very least from Volde, who he claims told him teh plan to begin with? And notice Snape fought no one else from Hogwarts or the Aurors during the scene, he only escaped (and prevented harry from killing him). And as someone else pointed out, his parting words were more like advice. Doesnt seem very much like Snape, especially had he betrayed a trust. I feel he would have gloated and paraded it in front of him. When harry used a spell against him, Snape even went so far as to scream, "No, Potter!" before it backfired and it him. And when Harry says go on, kill me like you killed him, Snape screams back "DON'T-", almost as if Potter doesn't fully understand. And I think that is the case.

OOOOOO, I found a good quote!!! This is the quote where Harry tells DD about the unbreakable vow. Its says that harry "tells him the story", after which DD says it isnt of great importance. If you ask me, this says a couple of things: A) harry probably did tell him about the unbreakable vow, seeing as it was the main thing he mentioned to Ron a few scenes earlier. B) By DD saying he probably understood more than Harry did, I think he meant a couple of things. That Snape WAS telling the truth about not knowing what he was up to, and draco not telling him-even the Vow. All things that could have been signs of Snape attempting to cover himself for future calamities, turned out to be him telling the truth. And when he said he understood more, perhaps he meant that it only confirmed to DD that Snape was on his side. C) He said he told him nothign that "caused him disquiet", something that the discovery of Snape's betrayal certainyl would have caused him. No, I think DD trusted Snape, and with good reason, as this shows.

Yeah, the bathroom scene could easily be interpretted that way, too. "If unlikely, given the book's ending", I think it is only because we are assuming that DD had not foreseen this, or ordered Snape to do it (perhaps what he was arguing against with DD, which DD told him he'd already promised to do). That's what I think is so good about this theory, it plays into all the evidence we have. And I really strongly believe there is no point for Snape to tell DD about the Vow if he is truly against him.

Also when harry overhears Snape and Draco talking about the Unbreakable Vow, Harry later tells DD, who already knows this. If snape were truly bad, there would be no reason to tell DD this.

As a sidenote, I thought I would tell you guys about hwo I read the scene at Snape's house: The only thing Snape revealed to prove that he "knew the dark lord's plan" was say he couldn't persuade the Dark Lord once hed made up his mind, or something like that. Then Narcissa blew up about how Draco was being punished by being asked to do it. Notice they never mentioned WHO they were going after, just that Malfoy had to do it. And later in the book, DD indicates that Snape has told him that Draco won't confide in him (as we see proof of), so he wouldn't have known it was DD malfoy was after, and not Harry. Which also might explain why he was right there when Harry and Draco fought int he bathroom: He REALLY WAS trying to figure out who Draco was after and how. EDIT: And don't you think its funny how without a face, Harry thought Snape (as the HBP) was GOOD all year long (even defending him, often)?

We don't know, you're right, but just like Harry interupted DD when he was about give the details of Snape's "return", I find it convenient that we overheard that statement, especially if its for somethign random that wont play to importance int he future. If it doesn't, how did you read the scene as important, or even jsut in general toward where you thought the end was going?