SchtoopingHer

Whatever, Lullaby, grasp at straws, but int he context of what we know, my point is very valid. When he says he doesnt want to do "it" anymore, that seems like a fairly ominous job, not something new or auxillary.

Yeah it coudl hav ebeen Avada, but how does that fit in if he was actually bad? Why would he do that, given the unbreakable vow, and his plans to be an accomplice in DD's death?

Overworked has nothing to do with it--unless of course, you take it the obvious way, meaning leading the double life was taxing. What you should be focused on is what hagrid quoted snape as saying "I heard snape saying DD took too much for granted, and maybe he- snape- didn't want to do it anymore" Direct Quote, Snape saying he wants to stop the double life-quit his job. Either way, it wouldnt be a smart move if he were really working for Volde. unless that conversation was genuine, it makes no sense.

No, I don't remember that, but I think you could be right. I think Hermione just looked up the name prince, I don't think there was a reference to her year in school, or the a connection between her years at the school and the year of publication. But i could be remembering wrong, too.

Here is the scene: Page 405 (US hardback edition), about 3/4 of the way down the page, hagrid lets slip that Dumbledore is angry at Snape, and harry pushes him for more information. Hagrid says: And then it goes off on another tangent. That's where I remember EVER reading that. And my question still stands: If he was keeping tabs on Dumbledore and trying to help Malfoy (and NOT DD) why would he try and quit?

See, I think that that's what DD told us, but that he never showed it. And the protagonists, Harry, Hermione, and Ron, always seemed to be accusatory of him. I always tend to think the author's protagonist's views are what the audience is "supposed" to think. Except in this book, where we were treated to info the protagonist isn't. Which is what made the end shocking to me. I expected the final twist to be that everyone, from harry to the audience (which now had proof he was bad) thought snape was bad, but that he wouldn't be. So I guess I'm kinda holding on to what I envisioned the twist to be, but I also think its got promise. (The snape trying to quit, and the insistence of the wise mentor that snape is good (for what up til now has been no good reason) leaed me to believe something is gonna cahnge our views on him)

And no one has yet answered my question: Why would Snape try to leave Dumbledore's employ if he were a spy?

The only thing I really have to say to counter any of your points is that it seems likely that Lupin might not know, had Snape truly kept his love for lily a secret. And I still think everyone is too eager to believe that Snape just said he regretted it, and Dd believed him. There is something more to his admission we are missing. DD was too samrt to just believe an apology. Like we were filled in on the details of Snape's return to Volde, I think in the next book we are going to here the full unobstructed truth about Snape's "return" to DD after they were killed. I mean it seems quite possible to me, given that Harry interupted him right as he was going into the details of how the scene went. (see my above post with the quote). Again, I am just guessing, and readily admit I could be wrong, but that was what I was thinking the whole time I read it. And if Snape was truly evil, it seems a waste to reveal it at the very beginning of the book, without any twist or notes of interest. And if one were to read into it without any thinking there would be twists, it pretty much makes the whole rest of the book boring to me, or if nothing else, anti-climactic. Dumbledore looks stupid, and the whole thing becomes a predictable and obvious bore. We knew Draco was up to something the whole time, we knew snape was bad, and therrefore the whole death of DD scene is apparent. The whole series of books everyone thought he was a bad guy and the twist is -- he is? No no, I think there is still more to snape than meets the eye.

Something I just realized: Snape's father was the muggle, wasn't he? Because Prince was in the Daily prophet or in school records, yeah? So that means that Snape wasn't ashamed of either side, if he adorned the half-blood name (his father's heritage), and his mother's last name. Or maybe its just that he only felt the prince half of his blood was valid. i don't know.

Yeah, I agree, and I can't remember the falshbacks very well. But it seems to me there is a better reason why DD trusted Snape than we were given by the end of this book, and the only thing I can think of is love. And if you put that together with the fact he really hated James (even above the others), it seems most likely. This is all conjecture, obviously. EDIT: Okay, I checked the chapter, "Snape's Worst Memory" from OOTP, and discoverd that everyone was laughing at snape, while james, sirius and lupin tortured and taunted him. Lily was the only one who told them to stop and "leave him alone!". And yes, he does call her a mudblood, which isn't exactly helping my case. (this is a stretch but maybe he calls it his worst memory because in the heat of his anger, he said something he horribly regretted afterward.) But it seems odd that he would be prejudiced against half-bloods, yet don the name, " The Half-Blood Prince" proudly in private. ( I don't care what you believe - To me, if you are writing "property of the half-blood prince", you're either ashamed of your pureblood father, or proud of the half-blood side. Either way, I think its supports my argument, to an extent) So if there is something to be said for my side, its that she stands up for him in this scene, and that it still seems fishy to me that snape and Lily were equally gifted in potions, and form the same year. Perhaps this was another reason he had to fall for her - there similar talents/interests. And also note that during this time, Lily also hated James, so maybe it pushed Snape over the edge when he discovered James had gotten her.

As far as the condescending stuff, you hadn't edited the post when i started writing my reply, so in that regard I take it back. My question meant to imply that Dumbledore foresaw his death, perhaps even at the hands of Snape, and that is why he appointed Snape. When I said your post was moot, I meant because Snape and Lily were in the same year, so it is equally likely that either of them had it. We can safely assume that one of them did (unless you care to disagree) so i am saying it COULD HAVE BEEN (techincally) either. Thus why i was saying drop that argument. EDIT: but i'll concede on that argument if you want me to, cause I think its a good point that he wrote his property on it. To further my claim that Snape was still trusted by DD, I use evidence from the text. Right before they go to the cave, Harry yelled at DD for employing and trusting snape. At the end of the argument, DD says: "You have no idea of the remorse Professor Snape felt when he realized how Lord Voldemort had interpretted the prophecy, Harry. I believe it to be the greatest regret of his life and the reason that he returned-" And then harry interrupts him. But the reason I bring this up is because it goes well with my theory about him loving her. Yes, by the night the prophecy was made, if Snape was still a death-eater (DD confirms this in the paragraph before), he would have certainly known about voldemorts cruel killings. Thus, having discovered he was trying to kill potters family would have only made him upset if he harbored some sort of secret feelings for one of them. DD is smart enough to not have believed Snape was simply regretful the dark lord was a killer... he was regretful because he had loved lily, and because Volde had killed her. Thus proving he could love ( the main qualifier for DD's army), and that he truly was sorry, as opposed to the shabby excuse for trust Jo has us believe at the end of book 6. Just my opinion, try not to jump all over it.

I like your theory about Black's brother, though. That seems like it might be likely.

Ok well to each his own, but you don't have to be so obnoxious. I think that there is some validity to my points (ahh, here goes, in order): * Yeah, I know the title of HBP holds no real meaning ( I read the book, too, remember?) I just think he is significant if there is a book named after him, especially one about his past, and in which Harry unknownlingly defends him all year. * Yes he did write that name in his book, but do you write the names that embarass you or of which you are ashamed, in your books? Or, would you write things like Super Lullaby, or names you like? And (if anything) I think he would have changed his name to Snape when he went under the employ of Voldemort. Oh, and if nothing else, it is his rightful name, which is also a perfectly valid reason. * "Wrong." about it being lily's book? Maybe in technicalities, but if you'll notice, the book was old. Perhaps like it was this year for Harry, it could have been loaned out to Lily that year. And that is wholey possible, for the book was before Snape's time, too. And thus, your argument against it being in Lily's possession is moot. Finally, the reason I said it was hers was because I meant she used it, and he wrote his notes in there for her. *** And don't say "Wrong" about people's theories, just cause you disagree. Have a little more tact and grace. * Next: Just because Snape killed DD, don't assume the headmaster didnt see it coming. As I said, and you fail to acknowledge, Snape tried to resign; would he resign as his aide were he mere moments from (happily) killing him? I don't think Brutus handed in his resignation a week before killing caesar... no, he was right behind him, where he always was, ready to stab him in the back. And furthermore: Yes, Narcissa might not be a death eater, but it was literally right in front of one (You remember, Bellatrix, who happened to be peforming the vow, too). So the fraudulence of his loyalties would have been equally apparent had he refused. You also neglect to reply to what I believe one of the most important points I made: Why did dumbledore trust him so much? And why didn't he kill DD when he obviously had the chance earlier? And irregardless of whether he was made to kill DD by the vow or an oath to DD, he still had no choice but to do it to keep his cover, both to bellatrix when he made the vow, and in front of the death eaters in the end. So, I seriously believe that something is going to happen in the next book, as I stated before. Again, I suggest you try to open your mind, Lullaby. This should be a place for people to congregate and exchange their beliefs and theories without fear of someone obnoxious acting condescending, especially with, as I have proven, little real basis for doing so. For all you able to converse amicably, I leave you with one question: With a year so cryptic, and the knowing way in which DD froze harry just as Malfoy entered the room, don't you think it's a bit peculiar that DD would assign Snape to a post that, due to a curse, hasn't been able to keep a teacher for more than one year? EDIT: and for the record, up until this book, I have never defended Snape. I always thought he would turn out evil.

Took me from saturday night til monday afternoon. But I was working during some of that time. A spectacular book, totally worthy of its place in the series.

I haven't read all the posts yet, so forgive any reposting of ideas, but I thought I would weigh in on a couple of things: Maybe its just my suspicious mind, but I foudn the twists in this book to be much mroe obvious than in teh last ones. I guessed it was snape very early on, and every scene involving him seemed to confirm it even more. I also guessed that Malfoy was not after Harry, as I thought it first seemed, but Dumbledore. Perhaps it was the fact that he was weak, or that someone ruined the ending for me, but I was almsot sure he was after DD the entire time I was reading. ---------------------------- MY MAIN THEORY: I also think it is highly likely that Snape will redeem himself (if possible) in the next book. And not simply because he is the "half-blood prince". **There is still certainly more we dont know about Snape: for example, if he hated mudbloods and is a death-eater, why would he insist on calling himself by his mudblood mother's name, as well as acknowledging his half-blooded-ness in the same title? My theory goes as follows: Snape hated James because he loved Lily. Not only did he love her, but I am guessing that the potions book was hers, and that he was giving her notes, and sheepishly trying to appeal to her with his made-up title. I also think this explians perfectly why DD believed snape is good. When Snape gave the message to DD, perhaps he was a death-eater. But once he heard that Voldemort had killed Lily, he changed his beliefs. For he LOVED lily; and as we all know, DD believes that is the strongest and most important. And moreso, if snape loves, he is obviously not the same as Volde. And I can already hear some people saying, "But if this were true, why would he kill DD, and with such apparent rage?" Because Snape was rushing to DD's side, for he was the only one who knew that Harry and DD were going off that night. And when he came upon the room filled with Deatheaters, malfoy and DD, he had no way to keep his cover other than to kill DD, and without hesitation. My guess would be that like Harry, Snape was only in DD's command and trust because he had ALSO sworn an oath to follow DD's orders, irregardless of what they may be. And like Harry was forced to give DD the potion in the cave, even if it killed him, Snape was told to remain as a spy in Volde's army, even if it meant killing DD. (and perhaps this is the reason for the argument Hagrid overheard between the pair indicating Snape could no longer perform his duties, to which DD replied, he had already said he would) So my guess would be that this is the reason DD trusted Snape, and it is also the reason Snape will be one of the twists in book seven. At the last moment, or in a second before Harry's death, he will betray voldemort and give harry another second of life. EDIT: And if Snape's goal was simply killing DD, he could have achieved this several times, the most recent of which was when DD hurt his hand. DD said that he was in horrible condition when he arrived at Hogwarts, and had it not been for Snape, he would have died (or something to that affect) If he was so weak, he could have killed him then, as opposed to waiting. And moreso, I got the impression in Snape's home during the unbreakable vow, that Snape was not happy about the idea, and only did it as a way to prove his allegiance, for it would have been obvious had he refused.

EDIT: my bad, i thought this was the old forum, and didnt bother reading the title. Forget what I said, if anyone of you read it.

Yeah, its all those, plus " a flirt story" which is like 30 other pics with her in hot lingerie and the same hairdo (kinda). Also some pics are cropped and different sizes, and stuff . . . eg, there is a verison in of the fourth pic that in my folder has a larger frame, showing her full body on a straircase.

Here is a folder with all the pics I have from this shoot, plus I think a couple similar ones. They are definitely my favorite Adriana shoot, as she looks completely gorgeous in virtually all of them. The link: http://rapidshare.de/files/3038675/a_flirt_story.zip.html Enjoy. P.S. My avatar is a pic of her butt from the same shoot, in a similar outfit.

:drool::drool: MY HERO! Thanks so much, I've been waiting for this one in HQ for a long time now.

nice post ninja. Sha, I second that.

Is nobody ever going to connect these two properly? I really love that pic of her on the vespa (or whatever). I hope I didnt miss it or something. . . .

I am not a huge fan, so hopefully that will soften the blow . . .

Holy crap, I have never been to this site! Thank so much

Its an old pic with the background blacked out. I think the image might be mirrored horizontally, too.

Well the book is called "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban", not "Lord Voldemort and the prisoner of azkaban."