modellight

I think the "it's my time to shine" and "friendly runway walk" needs to go! The fact that average women are now setting up their own "it's my time to shine" shows just cheapens the whole concept. They need to bring back the intimate feeling from the 99-2005 shows when the models would have a killer walk and stare down the camera. Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders and average women can't replicate the Gisele walk and stare but they can blow kisses. So no more dancing, no finger pointing, no hearts, no blowing kisses, no selfie hand motions, this isn't a strip club!!! Also, straight hair like early VS please and red lips. 

5 minutes ago, Ludivine08 said:

Most.People Who watch VS or are their target audience ARE model obsessed and will think skinny equals fit and healthy. 

 

Btw a smaller size than size 4 doesn't

need to be unhealthy. Thee are a lot of natural petite Girls Who don't starve themselves.  What VS does is creating those fake curves so their bodies become unrealisitic  ( size 2 andere making Small B cup look like big C or even D) 

 

Sorry, but people like us who are on Bellazon and can name all the Angels off the top of our head are not the typical person who tunes in on CBS. That's a small percentage. A lot of people watch it hoping to see some T&A, as a tradition, the musical guests, the older Angels or to gawk while drinking with friends.

Yes, someone smaller than size 4 doesn't mean unhealthy but to a lot of the general public it means unhealthy. I see you're based in the Netherlands but here in America, a lot of thinner women (especially lanky types) are seen as having something wrong with them outside of fashion industry people. People are very outspoken about it and will not hold themselves back saying that smaller women need to eat a sandwich etc. I'm a solid size 4 at 6 feet, 32DDD, former soccer player and I don't starve myself but if I walk through some parts of this country like the midwest, the south, suburbs and college towns, people are not afraid to tell me they think I look like I have an eating disorder.

2 hours ago, Ludivine08 said:

I think @Kevork89 means that the healthy look tends to be more skinny, It doesn't have to be in reality, but people associate Skinnier women size 2/4 who work out as more healthy. MOdels who are fuller often get that critism 'she needs to work out more eat healthier'. Adriana, Doutzen, Miranda Candice are excellent examples of promoting te skinny healthy look. They are skinny, but work out a lot they are toned, promote their life style by saying they do yoga drink green juices

I think it really depends on who you ask. The model obsessed tend to say that softer, curvier girls need to work out more and eat healthier.

But a lot of people who aren't model obsessed look at VS models, models, and in general women below size 4 dress as unhealthy, weak, starving themselves, can fall over and break, need a sandwich etc.

It shouldn't be that way either way but it is just that there is so much misinformation about bodies in general.

I think women want authenticity these days. People can see behind all the "fakeness" at VS like the fake curves from contouring, poses, chicken filets, the fake healthiness (because they've been caught smoking cigarettes, binge eating, binge drinking), the fake skinniness from crash diets. I think that's where a lot of the "hate" from the general public comes from.

17 minutes ago, Kevork89 said:

Exactly they were still skinny but they were different compared to the girls you would see in ads and fashion shows. So curvier girls related to them more, men loved them more etc. But the trend right now is that healthy look for men and women. Whether or not they do it healthy way that's up to the models but i'm talking about whats the in trend now and it was all about that athletic fit look.

Those girls from the 90's and 00's were still doing other fashion shows.

Athletic and fit does not have to mean lack of breasts, hips, butts and waists. It also definitely doesn't mean skinny. Big people, skinny people, curvy people can be healthy or unhealthy. Many elite female athletes are not your definition of "skinny." Simona Halep, Serena Williams, Misty Copeland to name a few. Marisa Miller looks far more athletic and stronger than Stella, Taylor, Lily, Behati and Romee for example. 

4 minutes ago, Kevork89 said:

The problem is trends in fashion are continuously changing. Just a minute ago it was trendy to be healthy and fit which is what VS promote and now it's trendy to be curvy and own your body. I'm a guy and big, my sisters are curvy girls. But let's face it we aren't healthy. It's fine catering to markets that are for people who are on the bigger side. But I don't think VS have to do that just because there's this whole PC thing happening now with curvier girls. Since when is it bad for someone to be skinny? Because that seems to be the direction things are going in.

 

VS have been all about curvy girls. When they were first hitting it big in the late 90s early 00s. VS were the brand that had curvier more full figured women. And they promoted that. They were far ahead in that compared to fashion magazines and other brands at that point who it was all about anorexic thin models and pretty much walking coat hangers. VS were praised and also hated for the fact that they were about that kind of girl.

 

They changed with the industry and started to go all about health and fitness. That's what they're focus in promotion now. All about that gorgeous, healthy girl. It's not necessarily about being curvy anymore. But they're being hated on for that now even though they were about that before.

I don't think curvy necessarily equates with big. The VS models in the 90's and early 00's were still sample size and athletic but they had more boob, butt and waist to hip ratio. They had a different shape.

I wouldn't put any of the girls today as healthier looking or more fit than say girls like Heidi and Marisa Miller who were curvy and athletic.

Plus, intensifying a workout for a short period of time with a cutting diet and then binge eating after the show isn't exactly healthy and unfortunately, some girls do that. 

6 minutes ago, BeautifulNightmare said:

If VS want to stay a popular lingerie brand they need to start making bigger cup sizes (and smaller band sizes). More people are becoming enlightened about their actual bra size and goes to brands like Freya and Bravissimo. I have medium sized breasts and DD is almost too small for me.

This is true. The VS Angels have become so tiny in the torso and cup size that the sample size bras they wear don't even fit without tape and chicken filets. VS doesn't make their actual bra size....that's probably why they don't wear them in real life!

Thanks for those videos @Sanni! I love how Heidi, Tyra and Marisa give their interviews! So professional and mature...we don't really see that these days.

They do a great job convincing me that they actually wear and love what they're selling. 

Today, we see so many pictures of the Angels not wearing bras in their streetstyle and red carpet. Some have even said in non-VS related interviews that they don't wear bras on a day to day basis because they don't need one. It kind of makes what they're selling seem futile. 

7 minutes ago, everyboulevard said:

Take it from someone who wears a 38DD, not all bras come in even that size. See: The Lightweight that runs up to a 36DD. I have two pairs of VSX tights in a large and they fit so much tighter than a same sized pair of the ultimate leggings from Pink. I can wear the XL panties just fine in some styles, others are a bit uncomfortable, and some in the L are fine. All depends on the product. 

I wear 32DDD in VS so I run into the same problem! But I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that some styles are not designed to give enough support past certain sizes. But then on the other hand, I have friends who wear 32A, 34A and 30C and they have really slim pickings. Some bras are just for different sizes and shapes.

2 minutes ago, toodarnhot said:

They almost never have those sizes in store, and they definitely don't have that size range in most of their styles. I also find that they fit quite small in their panties and VSX bottoms. 

 

I wear a size 2 and find their XS panties uncomfortable at times so I can't believe their XL would fit a size 16 comfortably at all. Ditto on their VSX- I buy an XS in them so I'm not sure where you're getting that they run bigger and stretchier. 

Really? I'm a big 2 to solid 4 and I can wear both the XS and S depending on what has sold out. The XS isn't uncomfortable at all.

I guess the difference here must be what other brands you are used to wearing. But even their size chart online, the measurements they give for their sizes are bigger than the norm.

17 minutes ago, everyboulevard said:

More than the bra size, there's their panties don't go above an XL and the sport pants don't go above a L. 

Their XL size in panties is meant to fit a US 16 and L a size US 14. I believe "plus size" starts from 12 and on.

VS also runs bigger and stretchy compared to brands at a similar price range. VS generally puts their models and mannequins in their XS which runs like a regular S in other brands.

Just now, Sanni said:

I could see them hiring Ashley for a commercial or a promotional event at one of their stores (Body by Victoria or something like that) but not contract her as an Angel.

This.

She is too famous and branded now to be contracted as an Angel. Doesn't she have her own lingerie line that is doing really well anyway?

10 minutes ago, Kevork89 said:

I doubt it. VS have spent the last 5-6 years really focusing on a certain look for the girls. Plus the eating healthy and VSX craze with them. I doubt they'd ever hire a plus size model. Well Ed and Monica won't at least. But the brand doesn't even stock bigger sizes so what's the point in having a plus size model if there aren't the product to sell from it.

They stock up to 40DDD. 40 back size is plus size. Just sayin.

59 minutes ago, elfstone said:

The real puzzle is: WHy are VS obsessed with models with fake titties?

Its not like bustier models arent out there

https://www.instagram.com/krotchy/

Girls with HF cred tend to have very little curves and VS seems to want girls with HF cred and super toned. The fake boobs helps them look more commercial. It's rare to find a girl with bodies like the original Angels these days at any of the top agencies. I guess agencies are to blame for not recruiting other body types. 

15 minutes ago, Sanni said:

 

Yes, I think something has gone wrong with the implants (too much scarring) but the only way to fix that would be to undergo another surgery. She probably thinks that she is too busy now.

I wonder if she even realizes what we see. She is so young. So many young girls are so impressionable and go for these things without knowing what real and not real looks like! I mean, can you imagine, so many young people think Bella Hadid is plastic surgery-free?

Bras and wires must be very uncomfortable for Romee at this point. That picture is painful to look at. 

2 minutes ago, Sanni said:

 

The younger demographic is the most crucial in advertising not because they have the most disposable income but because brands want to get people when they are young so that they’ll be loyal customers for many years to come.

 

In theory, this works for many other lifestyle brands and this is what they teach in school. But it doesn't work for lingerie since lingerie is so closely linked to the maturity of the body/womanhood and lingerie also serves a functional purpose.

VS believed in this theory with Pink but it is not translating to sales with mainline. Mainline sales are on a steep and steady decline. This is why they had to shut down so many categories. Younger girls these days want authenticity and that's why Aerie is crushing VS in the teen demographic. Yet, Aerie isn't making a dent with adult women. 

I rewatched 2001-2014 in the past few days. The concert formula and easygoing walks with finger pointing and dancing really took off after Gisele left! It's basically the staple from 2010 and forward. 

Gisele has a killer, strong, fluid walk and so does every single girl before 2010. Carmen Kass was one of their HF girls but she has boobies and a round butt! Those shows are so much sexier and cohesive. The whole "It's my time to shine! I'm going to walk alongside this superfamous musician like I'm walking to the bathroom at a club and then come up with a nifty pose at the end of the runway" reminds me of those amateur fashion shows in small town malls. The girls from the Gisele era are more like "I'm a hot b**** and you want what I'm wearing."

3 hours ago, PastaFreak said:

The long debate about models, lol. But I have to agree about one thing, that models like Elsa sell the brand better to the the Asian crowd. Someone like Adriana would have less influence in the Asian market because her features are much more sultry and bombshell while Elsa attracts the eyes of Asian viewers, because her features are much more exotic, soft yet still sufficient enough to maintain a sexy vibe. Even Alessandra and Josephine to that extent.

 

Alessandra and Adriana are the best two comparisons you have. Adriana is the bombshell, and Alessandra is your timeless beauty. Even on stage, Adriana had always have more presence than Alessandra. But Alessandra always stood out more as the feminine, gorgeous one. Not saying either one is unattractive, it's just that a VS model with softer features yet capable of maintaining a sexy vibe will capture the attention of Asians much so than the typical bombshells you'd consider is the standards in the Western world.

 

Adriana, Stella, Martha, Lily and maybe, Lais will not capture the eye of Asians. Someone like Taylor will be a massive hit with the Asian crowd tho.

 

I guess it just falls down to the perception of beauty in Asian culture. There are times where I like Adriana, because she can really capture your attention, but it doesn't mean she's always the best standard of what VS can present. Even if she had the largest fanbase, Adriana is still very situational beauty. And the same is for Candice. Each model has her own personal attraction. But at the end of the day, the Western and Asian crowd have very different standards of beauty. 

 

Candice would be an amazing candidate for the Asian market along with Elsa and Jo. Ale is way too severe in the face and her body proportions have had poor reception in Asia. Taylor wouldn't do so well with the Asian crowd...the eyebrows will be too much. She has a babyface but there's also a very strong angularity or severity that comes out in pictures.

Miranda would be amazing too if she was still with VS..

7 minutes ago, freevsangel said:

Why is VS going to want older viewers when the lingerie they sell are for a younger target? I mean i dont see people over 50 wearing VS anymore (maybe before the 2010, but not now)

The 18-49 demographic is crucial because they have the most disposable income and ability to make multiple purchases over and over again. A 16 year old most likely doesn't have a career allowing the type of income that allows frequent shopping. I would even push it as far as 30-45 is a crucial demographic considering many 18-29s are underemployed or unemployed these days.

Haters of Jo are just angry and jealous that their favorites don't have as nice of a body as Jo. They pledged to the wrong girl.

7 minutes ago, bellazonelurker said:

Honestly only thing I ever read, even on Daily Mail comments which are usually vile are people praising Candice and her body. Every model has a few negative comments, even Adriana, who is often stated as overrated, but they still both have more fans then haters. And looking through forums mostly guys visit the only angels they ever talk about are Candice and Adriana, how hot they are etc, so I would say that people outside of fashion world love them even more. Fashion world is all about skinny hf models who look strange and they don't exactly fit that bill. 

 

Lucky you. I've seen and heard a lot of negative comments about Candice over the internet, in stores etc...

Candice is a million times better than any of the "new angels" plus she has a very humble and compassionate personality which is why I like her. Something you don't see in younger girls today because of social media.

9 minutes ago, bellazonelurker said:

Well VS either used girls who are already supermodels/top models/stars or took a girl and made it into one. The last person they succeed in doing that was Candice, and after that nothing, years have passed and nothing is happening in that regard. So I really think VS doesn't have that power anymore to turn girl into top model/supermodel.

People outside of the fashion world complain that Candice's boobs are too small and she's too skinny and she doesn't have a butt like pictures make it seem (their words, not mine). Her agency and VS have promoted her through papp pictures and that's when everyone can see what she really looks like in a bikini. The reactions are not good and people then say that VS uses too many "tricks" to make their models look like bombshells when they just look like "adolescent boys" or "flat as a board on both side" (again, their words, not mine, Candice fan here). People use these kinds of words to talk about all the VS models nowadays but don't know their names. The only exception is that everyone knows Adriana's name and she has T&A.

They need to do something totally out of the box. Like use a plus size model. That would get a lot of positive attention. But from now on, VS needs to focus on going back to their heritage of curvy girls not sporty fashion West Coast teen girls.

1 minute ago, bellazonelurker said:

One of the bigger problems is that girls who used to be in the show were all supermodels and big thing in high fashion. Now supermodels don't exist, and high fashion models are not nearly as attractive like they were in Gisele time. Now hf models are either insta girls or too thin/bad bodies, strange looking, ugly-pretty is the new aesthetic, as they love to call it, and they have zero sex appeal.

So it is hard for VS to find bombshells or just beautiful girls with decent enough bodies.

There are definitely top-ish models out there who have the bombshell look for VS but they don't have HF or insta relevance. Therefore, their agencies don't push them far enough! There are so many girls who are doing campaigns for the European lingerie brand who could be the next Heidi etc but their agencies don't push them. 

VS made Heidi, Adriana etc. They need to find those unknown bombshell girls and turn them into stars. Plus, everyone loves an underdog story. The general public would love to root on a girl who is too curvy for HF but not commercial enough for SI and finally VS saves them. 

Female pop icons don't really wear VS these days because the marketing is too kid like/Forever 21 (and why not get that stuff at Forever 21 if their markup is lower anyway). Beyonce is always seen wearing La Perla, Agent Provocateur...nice stuff. VS has lost that allure for women which is why sales are down but other companies are getting better.

1 minute ago, ltwilla103 said:

 

They were fighting over an exclusive with Daria and Lancome was willing to outbid VS for her and then turned around and said that they didn't want her to walk the show. Maybe brand issues because remember 2004 is a lot different than 2016. They were coming off the whole superbowl incident and the cancelled show.

Daria wasn't into the idea of doing VS.

2 minutes ago, Kv0802 said:

No Lancome ads have come out yet right? 

 

I remember Lancome and VS were at war for Daria Werbowy, and Taylor got them both. Speaks greatly of her demand. She's young, there is room for improvement.

She has a beautiful face. But there are other things that you can't change or improve. Given the state of VS sales declines, she doesn't move product

Daria also turned down VS because of her beliefs on objectification of women.

1 minute ago, TKC said:

Taylor is such a good example that looks aren't everything lol

She is great for Lancome. But she is not a lingerie model period. 

I notice when multiple girls are wearing the same products. It looks weird on Taylor's proportions.