Zack Snyder's "Justice League" (2017/2021)

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This scene from B v S  is important in regard to what was envisioned to be JL2/JL3:

 

 

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Flash, awesome scene:

 

Spoiler

 

 

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Cyborg and dad, awesome scene:

 

Spoiler

 

 

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I enjoyed the "moment of glory" scene after the battle.  Reminds me of newsreel and photography of WW2 heroes.

 

 

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[Michael*]

The good is that there are proper introductions to launch the three new heroes, a lot more of Cyborg and clearer motivations for Steppenwolf. Elements like Superman's resurrection make a lot more sense, and the third act is fun.

 

The bad is the new Wonder Woman theme playing approximately twenty times in the first fifteen minutes, the "Knightmare" sequence which is completely tacked on and serves no purpose other than to set up a sequel that I dare say won't be happening, and the fact that it probably could have been an hour shorter if there hadn't been so much slo-mo.

 

The indifferent is how surprising it feels that quite a lot of the plot is the same. It's a different experience and addresses a lot of the problems with the cinematic version, but it still has the same core issues, which is that the script isn't brilliant and the story (minus the cameos) is rather like Avengers Infinity War and Endgame with mother boxes, Darkseid and Cyborg subbed in for Infinity Stones, Thanos and Vision.

 

Overall though, I think the four hours could easily have been fine-tuned into a perfectly decent two and a bit hour comic book flick. Whedon's amendments to the cinematic version completely missed the mark and this is a significant improvement.

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33 minutes ago, Michael* said:

the "Knightmare" sequence which is completely tacked on and serves no purpose other than to set up a sequel that I dare say won't be happening, and the fact that it probably could have been an hour shorter if there hadn't been so much slo-mo.

 

I read the story boards for both JL2/JL3 and I didn't like them at all.  He was also pitching a post-apocalyptic setting (like in the Marvel comics) to be centerpiece for one of the films.

[Michael*]

44 minutes ago, Cult Icon said:

I read the story boards for both JL2/JL3 and I didn't like them at all.  He was also pitching a post-apocalyptic setting (like in the Marvel comics) to be centerpiece for one of the films.

 

Honestly, I'm still reeling from the intended direction of Lois becoming pregnant with Wayne's child and then lying to Clark about who the father is. Just the thought of something that reads so much like naff fan fiction becoming so central to the plot of two more movies, it should really remove all doubt that Snyder was simply the wrong shepherd for the characters.

 

I almost forgot, one of the weirdest things in Justice League is that Amy Adams gets tons of screen time, but does very little except buy coffee and mope over Clark's death. Although it's a little bit funny that she does those two things in the most Zack Snyder way possible.

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@Michael* 

 

what do you think of the action scenes?

 

Recently I rewatched Man of Steel bits and found the CG and action to be very good.

 

But Justice League CG was just very videogamey and took me out of movie.  I like the Flash scene though, one of the best of the best.

[Michael*]

On 4/12/2021 at 6:56 PM, Cult Icon said:

what do you think of the action scenes?

 

Recently I rewatched Man of Steel bits and found the CG and action to be very good.

 

But Justice League CG was just very videogamey and took me out of movie.  I like the Flash scene though, one of the best of the best.

 

Yeah, I know for me, the action sequences were a fairly mixed bag. What with it being mostly made up of lengthier takes on the radically truncated stuff from the cinematic cut, some of it now feels awkwardly overlong. Other scenes work much better but are sometimes weighed down by some fairly unsightly CGI.

 

My favourite Man of Steel scene was the one in which Clark flew for the first time and broke the sound barrier, the scope and magnitude of that just jumped out at me in the best way possible. I feel pretty confident in saying that there's nothing in Justice League that can really hold a candle to it.

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On 4/14/2021 at 2:24 PM, Michael* said:

 

Yeah, I know for me, the action sequences were a fairly mixed bag. What with it being mostly made up of lengthier takes on the radically truncated stuff from the cinematic cut, some of it now feels awkwardly overlong. Other scenes work much better but are sometimes weighed down by some fairly unsightly CGI.

 

What do you think of the CG in Avengers Endgame?  

 

I heard that Weta did the CG for Justice League- this is the same top tier company that did the CG for Avatar.  Hmmph..

[Michael*]

11 hours ago, Cult Icon said:

What do you think of the CG in Avengers Endgame?

 

I would say, taking into account the number of sequences that were probably 90% CGI, the visuals in Endgame are of a decent-to-good standard, although there are plenty of noticeably not-very-good effects in some of the other Marvel movies.

 

I don't recall anything in Endgame looking as rough as the final battle from Black Panther though, or Mark Ruffalo's seemingly disembodied head inside the Hulkbuster armour from Infinity War, to name a couple.

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On 4/25/2021 at 10:30 AM, Michael* said:

 

I would say, taking into account the number of sequences that were probably 90% CGI, the visuals in Endgame are of a decent-to-good standard, although there are plenty of noticeably not-very-good effects in some of the other Marvel movies.

 

I don't recall anything in Endgame looking as rough as the final battle from Black Panther though, or Mark Ruffalo's seemingly disembodied head inside the Hulkbuster armour from Infinity War, to name a couple.

 

I thought the battle CGI for Endgame/infinity war were better than those for Justice League, however, nothing really pops outside of the duel between Tony Stark and Thanos.  The big battle in endgame looked like something from game cutscene.  CGI works when it is submerged with flesh and blood actors, otherwise it takes me out of the experience.

 

I saw this trailer recently and it seems like the Marvel franchise is entering its "B-tier", which doesn't bode well unless these new properties can outshine the original lineup.  If Marvel declines, then it seems like the Superhero bubble may pop someday :

 

 

They never should have allowed bucky to cut his hair, he looks like an ordinary dude off the street now..

[Michael*]

10 hours ago, Cult Icon said:

I saw this trailer recently and it seems like the Marvel franchise is entering its "B-tier", which doesn't bode well unless these new properties can outshine the original lineup.  If Marvel declines, then it seems like the Superhero bubble may pop someday

 

Yeah, I think as much as there'll always be a market for pure entertainment and spectacle, even things like Batman and Spider-Man have at times shown themselves to be fallible in terms of box office performance, and the other properties could suffer just as much if audiences are made to sit through multiple lesser adaptations. At that point, I would fully expect mainstream studios to start looking down the road towards the next big thing, whether it be video game movies or something else.

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On 5/4/2021 at 7:20 PM, Michael* said:

 

Yeah, I think as much as there'll always be a market for pure entertainment and spectacle, even things like Batman and Spider-Man have at times shown themselves to be fallible in terms of box office performance, and the other properties could suffer just as much if audiences are made to sit through multiple lesser adaptations. At that point, I would fully expect mainstream studios to start looking down the road towards the next big thing, whether it be video game movies or something else.

 

What do you think is the next "big thing?"

 

I don't quite understand why they decided to move on from the A-team for the time being.  The actors want to move on/aged out - that makes sense.  However they could reboot them/expand their universe with new leads taking over.  Definitely with Captain America they could do some more films.  Most Cap lore, especially his WW2 stuff (really only in the 1st movie) is underutilized.  I haven't followed on why Iron Man is put on hold.  Some of what I have just said may be in error as I don't follow this stuff closely.

 

There are also tons of more niche "graphic novels" that could be converted into  many stand-alone films however they would not have the power this franchise.  

[Michael*]

On 5/10/2021 at 8:06 AM, Cult Icon said:

What do you think is the next "big thing?"

 

It could perhaps have been video game adaptations already if not for the fact that Hollywood still seems mostly clueless on how to take a genuinely good game and turn it into a genuinely good movie. All big companies go where the market takes them though, as soon as someone "cracks the code" and one or two come out that make decent money at the box office, I would anticipate every studio rushing to make more.

[Michael*]

On 5/10/2021 at 8:06 AM, Cult Icon said:

I don't quite understand why they decided to move on from the A-team for the time being.  The actors want to move on/aged out - that makes sense.  However they could reboot them/expand their universe with new leads taking over.  Definitely with Captain America they could do some more films.  Most Cap lore, especially his WW2 stuff (really only in the 1st movie) is underutilized.  I haven't followed on why Iron Man is put on hold.  Some of what I have just said may be in error as I don't follow this stuff closely.

 

Yeah, it always seemed to me that the James Bond franchise was really the only one that genuinely embraced the reality of lead actors eventually having to be replaced, and then recasting when the time felt right to reinvigorate the concept.

 

In the case of Marvel, they may be wanting to hold off on recasting for a while, partly so as not to cheapen the impact that the likes of Evans and Downey have had in the roles, and partly because they still have a few of the "big guns" in reserve with things like the X-Men and the Fantastic Four.

 

We'll probably see the lesser known characters utilised more and more though, which won't be a problem if the stories they're telling are good, but if it reaches the point where we're getting an Inhumans for every Daredevil, it might be better to leave certain things alone for the time being and come back to them later.

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On 5/19/2021 at 9:42 AM, Michael* said:

 

It could perhaps have been video game adaptations already if not for the fact that Hollywood still seems mostly clueless on how to take a genuinely good game and turn it into a genuinely good movie. All big companies go where the market takes them though, as soon as someone "cracks the code" and one or two come out that make decent money at the box office, I would anticipate every studio rushing to make more.

 

Resident Evil is getting re-booted...  The original franchise with Milla J had little to do with the games.

 

 

You know it would be cool to see film adaptations of Bioshock or some other IP.  However on the other hand the cutscenes of games are as long as a miniseries.  The Witcher cutscenes were tens of hours long.  I dunno what sort of value could be added by a film that motion capture and telling a story through environments, interactions, and gameplay.. can't do.  The downsides seem greater than the upsides. 

 

I still think that there are tons of great comics that can be made into good films.  Did you know that "History of Violence" and "Road to Perdition" were graphic novels?  

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On 5/19/2021 at 10:11 AM, Michael* said:

In the case of Marvel, they may be wanting to hold off on recasting for a while, partly so as not to cheapen the impact that the likes of Evans and Downey have had in the roles, and partly because they still have a few of the "big guns" in reserve with things like the X-Men and the Fantastic Four.

 

We'll probably see the lesser known characters utilised more and more though, which won't be a problem if the stories they're telling are good, but if it reaches the point where we're getting an Inhumans for every Daredevil, it might be better to leave certain things alone for the time being and come back to them later.

 

I don't know why Evans and Downey are "retired" in the Marvel universe.  The actors don't want to play them anymore?  Since these were their biggest roles - doubtful that that they can get a bigger one again- seems rather premature.  You're right about it being too early to replace them.  Avengers endgame came out not long ago.

 

I remember inhumans being a popular comic book series but that was many years ago.  

[Michael*]

On 5/28/2021 at 7:17 AM, Cult Icon said:

Resident Evil is getting re-booted...  The original franchise with Milla J had little to do with the games.

 

Yeah, while maybe not the most faithful to any particular game in the series, the first film does provide a decent blend of action and horror with some good sets and visuals, as well as a pretty good performance from Milla Jovovich. Unfortunately, it was nearly all downhill from there.

 

Incidentally, although I'm not sure who's in the director's chair for the reboot, it feels to me like the sort of thing that could perhaps have played to Snyder's strengths.