Bush doesn't care about poor black people!!!

[Monkey]

This debate is getting redundant and repetitive. :yuckky:

I hate affirmative action for one reason, and that is that it gives certain minorities special rights.

There seems to be this notion that it creates equality. It doesn't. That's the exact opposite of what it does.

And it is beyond idiotic to say that people whose ancestors may have been slaves should be paid back. No one who would benefit from affirmative action was ever a slave in the United States.

Giving today's blacks special rights isn't going to change what happened in the past.

[sha]

i couldnt agree with you more^^

[Chicken]

This debate is getting redundant and repetitive. :yuckky:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then shut up! and lets all be friends!

[sha]

sounds good to me

[Jimmy Changa]

There is no reason we can't have a friendly debate of such subjects. All it takes is a few deep breaths before writing your posts. Think about your points and state them clearly remembering to respect your fellow Bellazonians.

I happen to agree that affirmative action is bad for the country but more than that, I think it's bad for the minorities that it supposedly helps because it send the message that they need the help and they are not good enough to do it on their own merit. This is a very destructive message to grow up with. Just like the welfare mentality. It destroys a person's sense of power over their own destiny and sense of true equality with their fellow man. All people should be told verbally and non verbally (through things like our nation's approach to law and justice) that they truely are equal, empowered and endowed with the rights our constitution supposedly gives.

[OriginalSin]

This debate is getting redundant and repetitive. :yuckky:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

then why, pray tell, did you resurrect this thread in the first place? i only ask because it was successfully ignored before you went and dug it up. i'm not saying you're in the wrong for choosing to respond, but i'm not sure what you expected...you say something, people are going to respond, and not everyone is going to agree with you.

btw, saying that something is "redundant and repetitive" is redundant and repetitive in and of itself

[k_dub]

Racism is the reason why affirmative action was implemented in THE FIRST PLACE!!!

Not true. Affirmative action, as it pertains to admitting persons into colleges and universities, is intended to allow people who are not, for lack of a better term, smart enough to be admitted under the normal standards for enrollment into the school anyway, based on the color of their skin.

It's racism if someone gets into a university because they're black, not because they're intelligent, no? Keep in mind, it also prevents some white person who worked hard from getting into the school.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

um i believe what k_dub means to say is the following...if not for the injustices that blacks have faced for the past couple of centuries, affirmative action would not have been thought to be necessary in the first place. if not for oh um lemme think...slavery and segregation and other various setbacks that blacks have faced , perhaps by now they would be on an even playing field as whites today and affirmative action would not be necessary. to think that the events of the past dont still affect black people and culture today doesnt really make sense to me. affirmative action was meant as a kind of corrective technique. it's not like it just came out of nowhere, and lets not pretend that it did. thanks.

most universities dont just let someone in "because they're black." getting into a university is not simply about "who's the smartest" you know a lot of smart people get rejected from top schools? ...the school, provided it has a good admissions system, looks at more than just test scores. it's a whole package thing. furthermore, the amount of energy spent talking about how unfair affirmative action is, is hilarious to me because most of the people i've talked to who disagree with affirmative action for some very strange reason dont seem to have a problem with legacy students getting preference.

i'd also like to mention that affirmative action isnt just for race...it was also implemented to make sure that women get a fair shot. but no one seems to have a problem with that...or perhaps people just forget?

also one more thing, despite this idea that affirmative action prevents hard working white folk from getting into good schools, most schools still have a majority of white students in it. lots of hardworking people are prevented from going to college, and it aint just because of affirmative action.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you, Original Sin, for seeing MY POINT!!! Also, I would also like to point out that it wasn't just Blacks and women that benefited from affirmative action. Actually, I heard that affirmative action helped Hispanics and Asians more than it helped Black people.

P.S. Don't feel sorry for me, sha. I'm doing JUST FINE!!!

[Barry]

but by given an advantage to certain 'minorities' you are at the same time discriminating against other sectors of society. it would be correct to give equal oppurtunities but not to have set quotas or to give people crazy leg-ups. i think that by using quotas or give 'unfair advantages' you are creating a very prejudiced yet at the same time patronizing system.

on a side note this whole conversation is crap . . .

[Monkey]

btw, saying that something is "redundant and repetitive" is redundant and repetitive in and of itself

How so?

Seriously, what the hell are you talking about? The words mean two different things; both definitions apply to this topic.

[OriginalSin]

btw, saying that something is "redundant and repetitive" is redundant and repetitive in and of itself

How so?

Seriously, what the hell are you talking about? The words mean two different things; both definitions apply to this topic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

one, i was joking around with you.

two, redundant: needlessly wordy or repetitive in expression

so yes, repetitive can be a definition of redundant, thats "what the hell i'm talking about"

[Jimmy Changa]

There is no reason we can't have a friendly debate of such subjects.  All it takes is a few deep breaths before writing your posts.  Think about your points and state them clearly remembering to respect your fellow Bellazonians.

I happen to agree that affirmative action is bad for the country but more than that, I think it's bad for the minorities that it supposedly helps because it send the message that they need the help and they are not good enough to do it on their own merit.  This is a very destructive message to grow up with.  Just like the welfare mentality.  It destroys a person's sense of power over their own destiny and sense of true equality with their fellow man.  All people should be told verbally and non verbally (through things like our nation's approach to law and justice) that they truely are equal, empowered and endowed with the rights our constitution supposedly gives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love it when non-minorities assume they know exactly what is right and wrong for minorities. I ask you, if you yourself are not a minority how do you know what messages we get from affirmative action? Personally, I ain't met a nigga yet who's gotten the message you mentioned, sorta. We do need the help in the sense that the system is inherently racist, and although our merits should be enough to get us in wherever, there are plenty of people who immediately assume that LeShawn Jackson is less qualified than Edward Billington, just based on names. It does, in fact, level the playing field and saying that it doesn't is just naive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. So you HAVE bought it.

2. I AM a minority, just not one that gets special privledges. Some of us just have to suck it up when we are discriminated against. I can either cry about it or work on making do anyway. I usually do both...lol

[sha]

so why should white society work so hard to make minorities feel more comfortable in America. Do we owe them something. Where i live at government funded homes are going up like crazy, brand new 2000 square foot homes for someone that doesnt truely deserve it. while the working man white or black still lives in a 1300 square foot house that they work their ass off to keep. now how is that fair. i guess i just need to stop showing up to work so i can get fired and have some kids. then i can buy an escalade and have you all pay for my house....

poor black people have more rights and more stuff given to them by the government (bush) then any other race.. so to say that bush doesnt care about poor white people is just ignorant...

[Chicken]

clearly remembering to respect your fellow Bellazonians.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hate you !!! Fuck you!! You bitch!! ..better?

But I totally agree with you ..not everyone is gonna agree so at least we can do is respect each other..if not... then we'll have to call the ninja's!

[moiselles]

so who's fault is it that it is ok to have Black Entertainment TV but if there was such a thing as white entertainment tv that would be racism.  this is a no win arguement for everyone.  black and white will never be treated the same because neither really wants to be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love you, sha.

[SpanishEyes]

Hey, I"m mexican, comes from a poor family, paid my own way to college, graduated, own a home , own a business..no affirmative action helped me along the way.

NUFF SAID

[Barry]

so why should white society work so hard to make minorities feel more comfortable in America

to aim to integrate and help settle other communities to produce a better society and avoid ethnic and class tensions in the future. do you not think that you should welcome and respect your fellow countrymen/women?

is america truly a 'white society'? what do you mean by 'white society'? Anglo-Saxon heritage? European heritage? i think that you fail to acknowledge many of your cultural influences? isn't the USA supposed to be a 'cultural melting pot' which treats as equal and respects all of its citizens?

Where i live at government funded homes are going up like crazy, brand new 2000 square foot homes for someone that doesnt truely deserve it. while the working man white or black still lives in a 1300 square foot house that they work their ass off to keep. now how is that fair

do you not agree that society should try to help and support its poorest, most deprived and most vulnerable citizens? thus, society should provide shelter to these citizens (obviously at an appropriate level and to the most needy) . . .

i resent the way you say "someone that truly doesn't deserve it" referring to persons in government funded homes. maybe that is the case with some, i don't know, but i think that it is an incredibly harsh generalisation and is rather unfair on those individuals.

would you rather people were chucked out onto streets, forced to share tiny bedsits with many other families or sleep on washing lines (1930's stylin') rather than stay in accomodation subsidised by yourself and your fellow citizens?

poor black people have more rights and more stuff given to them by the government (bush) then any other race.. so to say that bush doesnt care about poor white people is just ignorant...

how so?

also, aren't ethnic minorities generally in lower demographic groups with lower socio-economic classes being the obvious target for government aid and incentives as opposed to fat-cat industrialists, the middle or the upper classes? (i am in no way suggesting that affirmative action is correct. in fact i disagree with affirmative action)

[sha]

so why should white society work so hard to make minorities feel more comfortable in America

to aim to integrate and help settle other communities to produce a better society and avoid ethnic and class tensions in the future. do you not think that you should welcome and respect your fellow countrymen/women?

is america truly a 'white society'? what do you mean by 'white society'? Anglo-Saxon heritage? European heritage? i think that you fail to acknowledge many of your cultural influences? isn't the USA supposed to be a 'cultural melting pot' which treats as equal and respects all of its citizens?

Where i live at government funded homes are going up like crazy, brand new 2000 square foot homes for someone that doesnt truely deserve it. while the working man white or black still lives in a 1300 square foot house that they work their ass off to keep. now how is that fair

do you not agree that society should try to help and support its poorest, most deprived and most vulnerable citizens? thus, society should provide shelter to these citizens (obviously at an appropriate level and to the most needy) . . .

i resent the way you say "someone that truly doesn't deserve it" referring to persons in government funded homes. maybe that is the case with some, i don't know, but i think that it is an incredibly harsh generalisation and is rather unfair on those individuals.

would you rather people were chucked out onto streets, forced to share tiny bedsits with many other families or sleep on washing lines (1930's stylin') rather than stay in accomodation subsidised by yourself and your fellow citizens?

poor black people have more rights and more stuff given to them by the government (bush) then any other race.. so to say that bush doesnt care about poor white people is just ignorant...

how so?

also, aren't ethnic minorities generally in lower demographic groups with lower socio-economic classes being the obvious target for government aid and incentives as opposed to fat-cat industrialists, the middle or the upper classes? (i am in no way suggesting that affirmative action is correct. in fact i disagree with affirmative action)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^^^you just proved my point

and i dont have any trouble with the government helping out the needy i have trouble with people taking advantage of the system.. and people that dont work having way nicer houses than poeple then people that do..

[Barry]

what point did i just prove?

people will always try and take advantage that is why it is up to the government to attempt to implement a fair and efficient system. it is not the people who are at fault, it is the government (local or national) for poorly managing the schemes . . .

[Barry]

in hindsight i don't really like this topic and i think that it is quite divisive . . .

[sha]

what point did i just prove?