We are not alone!

[Jimmy Changa]

IMO, the parameters required for sustaining life on a planet are so strict that the chances of their being another planet similar enough to earth to do so are so minute it is extremely unlikely.  Even WITH those billions and billions of stars.  But hey, I grew up with Star Trek too and I would love to believe it just like everyone else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The chance is slim, very.

But, look at coelacanths (still around RIGHT NOW even after 65 million years), and you'll believe that anything can happen.

"Extremely unlikely" does not rule out ALL the possibilities.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't believe that anything can happen by chance, no. Such as I don't believe that no matter how many times a tornado goes through a junkyard it will never result in a working 747. Never. It will only result in more dust. Good ol' 2nd law stuff.

When it comes to pondering life on another planet, I only start to realize just how special we have it here. How truely amazing our "set-up" is. As if it's designed perfectly for us.

There, I go again, huh?

[OriginalSin]

pip

[Jimmy Changa]

Pardon me, ms. moderator....the "pip thread" is over there.....

[schadenfreude]

Pardon me, ms. moderator....the "pip thread" is over there.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you very much for showing the mod how to behave around here!

[schadenfreude]

I don't believe that anything can happen by chance, no.  Such as I don't believe that no matter how many times a tornado goes through a junkyard it will never result in a working 747.  Never.  It will only result in more dust.  Good ol' 2nd law stuff.

When it comes to pondering life on another planet, I only start to realize just how special we have it here.  How truely amazing our "set-up" is.  As if it's designed perfectly for us. 

There, I go again, huh?  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anything can't happen by chance? I take it that you are an advocate of intelligent design?

There are some scientist that believe that something can come out of nothing.

Maybe worshipper_pa or red_ed can explain this.

Everything is pre-destined, that I believe.

But, I won't add a supreme being in the equation, as doing so makes it hard to truly answer the question.

Sometimes things look complicated even when they are so simple, this is due to our lack of understanding. For example, you look at order within an organisation and you may think that there must be a leader in that organisation, you think that there must be someone who is coordinating all of the activities in that organisation. Most of the time this is true, but sometimes there seems to be no leader at all.

I am talking about how schools of fishes seems so organised, even though they have no leader in their respective groups.

Back to topic, have you watched that video?

I am looking for updates from these 400 people.

They held that press conference in May 2001.

Now, I want to know whether all of them have testified under oath before Congress.

I will keep you updated on this.

[red_ed]

Not sure, but someone showed me carioius vidoe captures from the live feeds once. Wasn't censored. NASA just put up a half assed excuse

There are 200 billion stars in our galaxy(?) alone, let alone the universe. Maybe one of them is Earth-like? Whether they have the technology to travel through space is another problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stars burnt! The sun is a giant star.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wait, the point of that was? :lost:

[schadenfreude]

The point is nothing can survive on stars, as stars are burning rocks.

Maybe you meant to say planets.

[red_ed]

The Disclosure Project is a pretty eloborate deal.

[red_ed]

The point is nothing can survive on stars, as stars are burning rocks.

Maybe you meant to say planets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well there are planets and other naturally occuring satellites that revolve around stars. That was the hidden assumption of my post. Sorry, should have spelt it out.

[red_ed]

I don't believe that anything can happen by chance, no.

[Jimmy Changa]

Whenever I hear about the theories about the earth being populated by beings from outer space I just shake my head in frustration because it seems to me that someone is trying way too hard NOT to entertain the idea of a Creator/God. As if they are saying "Please give me anything but!!"...grasping at proverbial straws.

Yes, I am an advocate for Intelligent Design. I consider myself a balanced person, considering aspects from left brain and right brain thinking. I'm not so open-minded than my brain leaks out, yet I'm not closed minded as to reject valid science. I look around me and see a world full of complex order. A world of beauty. A world whose parameters are so precise that even the smallest change in rotation, size, distance from sun, tilt of axis, lack of other planets in SS, and lots of other things would have devastating and possibly catastrophic effects on life here on this planet.

It's true (at least strongly theorized) that if we didn't have Jupiter, we would not have civilization here since meteors would hit this planet far too often. SO while you're out finding a planet like Earth, make sure it has one like Jupiter near enough.

[Francesca]

(Jimmy Changa aka Big Daddy, what is your REAL name???)

[red_ed]

Yes, I am an advocate for Intelligent Design.  I consider myself a balanced person, considering aspects from left brain and right brain thinking.  I'm not so open-minded than my brain leaks out, yet I'm not closed minded as to reject valid science.  I look around me and see a world full of complex order.  A world of beauty.  A world whose parameters are so precise that even the smallest change in rotation, size, distance from sun, tilt of axis, lack of other planets in SS, and lots of other things would have devastating and possibly catastrophic effects on life here on this planet.

Heard of Pantheism?

I used to think the world's parameters were precise and everything was in equlibirum as well, and I found it hard to look atit from another angle. Then suddenly one day all the bad things just popped up in my head for no good reason and my image of the "perfect" world disappeared.

Also, connectionist nets are systems that can learn by themselves, as opposed to computers that can't learn at all. You can give the system a desired input and output and over a series of trials they develop and refine their own internal algorithms. By doing so, the "learn" to give an appropriate out put to any input you can feed it. This also generalises to material which it hasn't learnt. e.g. you can train them to recognise the faces of males and females. Afterwards, if you give it a picture of a person it has never seen before, it can still tell you whether the person is female or male.

This could be another way to view nature, self-refining and evolving, instead of created

(PS: Not trying to force you to believe anything you don't want, if you believe in a creator then that's cool too)

[Jimmy Changa]

Yes, I am an advocate for Intelligent Design.  I consider myself a balanced person, considering aspects from left brain and right brain thinking.  I'm not so open-minded than my brain leaks out, yet I'm not closed minded as to reject valid science.  I look around me and see a world full of complex order.  A world of beauty.  A world whose parameters are so precise that even the smallest change in rotation, size, distance from sun, tilt of axis, lack of other planets in SS, and lots of other things would have devastating and possibly catastrophic effects on life here on this planet.

Heard of Pantheism?

I used to think the world's parameters were precise and everything was in equlibirum as well, and I found it hard to look atit from another angle. Then suddenly one day all the bad things just popped up in my head for no good reason and my image of the "perfect" world disappeared.

Also, connectionist nets are systems that can learn by themselves, as opposed to computers that can't learn at all. You can give the system a desired input and output and over a series of trials they develop and refine their own internal algorithms. By doing so, the "learn" to give an appropriate out put to any input you can feed it. This also generalises to material which it hasn't learnt. e.g. you can train them to recognise the faces of males and females. Afterwards, if you give it a picture of a person it has never seen before, it can still tell you whether the person is female or male.

This could be another way to view nature, self-refining and evolving, instead of created

(PS: Not trying to force you to believe anything you don't want, if you believe in a creator then that's cool too)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pantheism? Isn't that "God is like an omelette."?

What were "all the bad things" that popped into your head? Evil and human nature? Or just things like hurricanes and shit?

So are you saying that the only reason someone might believe in a creator is because they are a connectionist net? BTW, I don't feel forced. If you were trying to force me, that was a very lame attempt...lol

My thoughts on the origin of the universe is that the idea of a creator takes a lot LESS faith for me than the options I've heard that leave a creator out of the equation. Not so much becuase it simplifies things but because of this one simple fact...

We, as humans, create. We create art, beautiful art that is an extension of ourselves. The art itself is not us, but it carries with it traits that reflect us. We put our passion, our desires...our blood, sweat and tears into it oftentimes. I understand the heart of an artist. I understand the pain and the passion. So, when I look at nature and at the stars...I see it thousandfold.

So maybe my approach isn't completely logical. But I think it cannot be dismissed.

[schadenfreude]

This is art.

http://www.winace.andkon.com/designed_organisms/

10___Canon__London_Symphony_Orchestra.mp3

10___Canon__London_Symphony_Orchestra.mp3

[red_ed]

So are you saying that the only reason someone might believe in a creator is because they are a connectionist net?

On the contrary, I was suggesting that could you view nature as a self-governing, self-refining system that doesn't have a creator

[Jimmy Changa]

So are you saying that the only reason someone might believe in a creator is because they are a connectionist net?

On the contrary, I was suggesting that could you view nature as a self-governing, self-refining system that doesn't have a creator

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As it sits now, that might be easy to fathom, but the expanding universe brings us back to a point in space at some point in time a very very long time ago. Oh wait, there's the bouncing and regenerating theories (I can't even believe those are considered theories as they have very little supporting data...just ideas, and wild guesses...science fiction basically). But then again, maybe you don't think the universe is expanding?

[OriginalSin]

Pardon me, ms. moderator....the "pip thread" is over there.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you very much for showing the mod how to behave around here!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hey hey...mods need guidance too

[Jimmy Changa]

Pardon me, ms. moderator....the "pip thread" is over there.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you very much for showing the mod how to behave around here!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hey hey...mods need guidance too

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Plenty more where that came from.

[schadenfreude]

It's hard for something to come out of nothing, that's where evolutionary theories fail in their explanations, but you can refer to the experiment conducted by Stanley Miller I think it was (will have to get back to you on that one) where he took chemicals present during the Earth's formation and ran an electric current trhough the solution. Days later, life appeared in the air-tight flask, proving that (somehow) spontaneous generation of life can occur.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have read a bit about that weird experiment. Please elaborate more.

Someone posted this article in a science forum. It's basically explaining the theory of how something can come out of nothing. Please correct it, if there's any mistakes.

I only expect people who are completely brilliant to understand any of this. The rest of you will probably just think I am crazy or high or something, but if you knew anything about mathematical or theoretical physics you would realize how silly all your ideas really are. All of what I am telling you comes from books I have read and advanced classes I have taken in the field of physics and astronomy. There are mathematics that are extremely complicated and most of you couldn't fathom if you lived to be 1,000. Good luck understanding this one!

We begin with astro-physics, a hobby of mine.

Stephen hawking has shown us a few things, even the vacuum of space is not really empty, it seems that there are these little things called "virtual particles" that pop in and out of existence in the "false vacuum of space." With me so far? No? Didn't think so. Few people can actually understand the mathematics of how you can get something from nothing, and yes it is possible. Anyway...

Einstein