The last two pages were full of idiotic comments like the following: Looks like you didn't just get it... Did you read the New Testament? I think you missed something (Probably 90%). According to you it's OK to kill people or to do other misfit actions. Because, as you said, be good or bad by own choice and not according to what other people tell you to do and be. So it would be: 1. Other people tell me killing a human being is bad. 2. I want to be good or bad by own choice. So I choose to be bad. ________ The conclusion: I can kill people and there's nothing wrong about it. There's no prove for that. For me your statement is kind of funny. It reminds me of some communists who actually thought they could prove that there's no soul with the following experiment: 1. Put a man on the scales and the scales will show his weight. 2. Let the man die (but don't remove his body from the scales) 3. If the soul does exist his body should now be lighter because his soul has left his body. __________ The conclusion: The scales didn't change -> Souls doesn't exist. You're doing the same mistake as above; you're not able (like the communists) to recognize the difference between material and non-material beings. The most simple example for a non-material being is the human thought or idea. You can't explain the thought within the framework of materialsm. You don't know the meaning of wisdom, don't you? And yet you're saying that atheist people are "wise"... which I find to be very funny. So, according to you atheism is a new synonym for wisdom? Also, I don't see any sense in stupid sentences like: "I'm not going to hell couse i don't believe in something that doesn't exist." 1. You're saying that you don't believe in things that doens't exist (I guess things like God, heaven, hell, etc...) 2. But still you're saying: "I'm not going to hell", as if hell exists. If you're not going to hell... where are you going? And who do you mean by I? You or your body. Just remembered an intersting question. Do we say I'm a body or I have a body? I think it's very clear that the first option (I'm a body) sounds very stupid, but that's exactly what atheists/materialsts think. More appropriate is the second option (I have a body), and this clearly indicates that there exists more than just the body. Because when saying I have a body, a new questions springs up: Who's the owner of the body? Usually God and devil are synonyms for good and evil. But there you got a point; good and bad things are results of human acts. Even in the book of hate and vengance (as some people here called the Bible) is written that man has free will. Man can choose between good or evil. Actually, I couldn't believe that someone wrote something stupid like that. I'd like to explain some things: 1. People were educated even in ancient times. 2. You said people searched for God because they didn't know how this and this was made? Could you tell me please how this and this is made? 3. Your statement that people who believe in God aren't well educated is pointless and idiotic. But it proves one thing -> You're totally uneducated. How old are you? In the end I am wondering why no one of the "educated" people didn't answer Juba's post on the first page. He made some good points and it looks like he got some good knowledge in natural philosophy. Just in case on of the "educated" missed it: Juba's post: Even I'm not talking about a "personalized" god (like God, Jahve or Alah), God must exist, he is the first or "unmovable" mover. See, every single being what exists has it's cause. For example: Me and you, or any other person is the consequence of his/her parents. No material being can be its cause and its consequence at the same time. But when we look better and when we begin questioning about the genesis, about the begining of life and universe, we can't no-longer believe that this cause-effect-chain goes in infinitum. This even have to admit the grimmest materialists. Today the majority of scientists believe in the "Big Bang" theory, and until now no-one can give a reasonable explanation to this occurrence without talking about God. So God exists that's certain, but the true question is: What is God like? Is he like in the Bible, Kuran etc... or is he like Aristotles described: The unmovable mover who just gave the first impulse and after that he doesn't meddle with the "ordinary" world. Boy oh boy, so may questions... but so little knowledge and opportunities to know more (Life is f*ucking short)! Here comes the more "ethic" part You also said ppl believe in God because of "comfort", quite the contrary, the life of an orthodox christian, moslem or jew I wouldn't describe as a "comfort" (if you know what i'm talking about). Isn't it easier just to abandon God and to live like you want? Look I'd also like that there's nothing after death, life could be so easy and enjoyable. But damn... somehow I know it can't be like that, it's only a boundary (death)... I'd say ppl who don't believe in God are looking for comfort, they are looking for an exculpation for their maybe not so moral doings. Because if there isn't God, ppl can do anything they want, I really mean anything... and in the end we all would be dead and that's it. But it isn't like that... you know what I'm talking about... moral, the inner voice and stuff like that. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that every atheist is a sinner. I know atheists who are better ppl than so-called "believers". Anyway, even from a rational and scientifical point of view God does exists (it's not only about ethic). Aristotles proved it thousands of years ago with his Metaphysic, even Einstein, who developed the Theory of Relativity, believed in God. Always have on your mind that i am talking about God as a philosophically princip. No offence, but I think no one of the "educated" people is capable to answer those questions, not only that, their way to debate about such profound subjects is more than foolishly and childish. Regards, Bogeyman.