Meryl, on Feb 16 2007, 11:02 AM, said:
You can deny her beauty and music talent because that's dependent on an individual's opinion but that's really not the point. her beauty and talent doesn't make her deserving of the cover of this magazine simply because her photo isn't the best.
anyway thanks for the scans
Seemingly contradictory pair of sentences here, no?
I know that people's terminology always vary and there's no *right* way of defining things apart from social agreement on what words mean but...
It seems to me that "opinion" is used too ambigously in many many cases (espeically instances like this).
For instance, in the sentence
(a) It is my opinion that 2+2=4
opinion means something completely different than in something like
(b) In my opinion, Miles Davis' "Sketches of Spain" album is better than Beyonce's "B' Day" album.
In (a), we're making a propositional claim about something with a definite truth value.
(b) takes the same *form* but what really differentiates it from something like
(b*) I prefer/enjoy listening to Sketches of Spain more than B' Day
One response is that what makes something 'better' aesthetically is some transcendent property that is not related to/not dependent upon subjective enjoyment. I've got tons of arguments against that but....
it doesn't seem you're using it in that sense anyway, because you say it's okay to deny(and, I suppose you'd also admit, affirm) her beauty or talent because it's just a matter of 'opinion' (in the 'preference' sense). So why is the judgment that her picture isn't the *best* simply non-preferential while judgments of her beauty or talent are
Where could one ever find any sort of impartial, non-preferential evidence to support the assertion that her photo isn't the best?
This seems to be the problem that I have with some of nina's arguments. They revolve around admissions that while many people find Beyonce pretty enough to be on the cover (and I suspect most American males and SE readers fall into this group) , because nina and some of her friends disagree, Beyonce doesn't deserve it.
You can't move from an is
to an ought
like that. No matter which characteristics of Beyonce we list (larger ass than models, larger thighs, dark skin, height, whatever), it's hard to say that because this is how she is
physically, people ought
to find her attractive or unattractive.
The other arguments all seem to be built on the premise that SI has an obligation to increase the fame and fortune of models. Why should SI show a preference to one group of multi-millionaires over another? Because they traditionally have? That doesn't seem very convincing to me.
And if I seem harsh, I apologise...
....no disrepect or dislike aimed at anyone here. You all seem pretty cool to me! I just like saying things as clearly as I can and sometimes that comes off as over-aggresive. Sorry if it does!
As soon as subjectivity is taken away, and passion from subjectivity, and infinite interest from passion, there is no decision whatsoever. All decision, all essential decision, is rooted in subjectivity.