84 replies to this topic

[Cult Icon]

Out of curiosity, what would be your rating out of 5?

I re-watched bits of Batman Begins and it helped me understand The Dark Knight Rises better.  The two movies are very, very much related, and Nolan uses references throughout the two.  He really did design part 3 as integral portion of the trilogy, and it was less stand-alone than I anticipated on my July 20th review.  I actually enjoy 3 more for that reason, but not enough to raise my rating.

BB, TDK- 4.5  
TDKR- 3.5


http://www.bellazon....t/page__st__800

Here are a few of the better Bane quotes ^

Another good one :

Spoiler

  "Take them up to the surface.  People of their status deserve to experience the next era of Western civilization..."

I liked Bane more after I rewatched the better half of his dialogue.  However, my sole theater experience with Bane's voice was different- he was just extremely loud yet difficult to understand in too many places.  I still didn't like his later contributions- but that's also because I didn't like the scenes (ambush scenes, stadium or blackgate prison).  I think Bane was approaching excellent in parts, but Nolan didn't develop the character far enough.  However, it's not Hardy's fault, but rather the script's.   Bane should have been given much more (and better) dialogue and better setpieces.  I can reasonably see him playing a role as large as Ledger's was in the TDK.

As for Bane's personality, Bane was effectively portrayed as being extremely cruel, a frequent user of black humor, and yet also very 'self aware' & devoid of emotion.  He was literally only mad once and that was a brief affair.  And the anger was purely physical rather than intellectual.

The brutal & near scary sewer fight scene and his talk with Bruce on the bed were the two best 'bane' moments.  The audience was completely silent during these scenes.  

Spoiler

  And when he dislocated Bruce's back, I couldn't help myself but say " Jeebus christ...."  Didn't expect that coming...!

I think #1 is pretty fair.  I would have liked a reveal, though.

Future batman directors are going to face an uphill struggle against Nolan's trilogy.

[Cult Icon]

There are other things, too, about plot directions that irritated me during my watch.  My preferred changes would unite the trilogy better.  A few thoughts:

Spoiler

-Bruce must die in the end.  He must die in the end without anybody except for Gordon finding out that he's batman.   The batcave and the wayne manor must be willed to Alfred and the Blake character.  This would establish the ideal continuity and theme of the batman.  Unfortunately, it was ruined in the film.  

-So I've had second thoughts about Blake- Perhaps keep him in, but make him somebody more impressive.  A detective, perhaps a former special forces nco/intelligence officer of some sort who's interested in the Batman, and has superlative skills of his own.  A new character must be developed, and one that can be seen as Batman's successor.  The next 'batman'.  Get a physically more impressive individual.

- Bruce being a hermit for 8 years- remove that plot element.  It's contrived, and comes across as fake.  Make it more like 'Bruce has been fighting crime for 8 years, and is worn out'.  The police are hunting him, and he has to be careful.  He's has to be less open than he was before.  He's injured. Illustrate this.  He's much less effective than before because of this, and also because 'peace has cost him his strength, victory has defeated him..."

-Catwoman is good, but she needs to written better just to adapt to the story.  Her story must be adapted around bruce's.

-Bane- expand his role, goals, and story, including his affiliation with the league of shadows.  Make it better. modify the 'nuclear weapon' Cliche' and make him more like the antagonists of Warsaw 1944.

-Talia- A secondary character in my view.  Recast her, make her into some sort of femme fatale/ mole that betrays Wayne.  Or remove her completely.

-Remove the Orphans- Blake ministory
-Remove the Special Forces ministory
-Remove the Taggrett-Executive VP-Bruce Wayne's fingerprints & derivatives fraud/clean slate/ ministory.  It's just ridiculous.
-Remove the Talia-Clean fusion- betrayal ministory
-Completely change Bruce's prison experience.  Keep a prison sequence in it, but change it completely.  The one in the film was lame.
-Remove Blackgate, Remove the Stadium, Remove the Scarecrow court
-Remove 'Bat' vehicle.
-Expand and improve 'trapped police' ministory.  Make the police into 'freedom fighters' of sorts.

With all these weaker elements deleted, better material could have been inserted in its place...

[CarMELita]

So, here am I, paying my tribute to a great Trilogy.

To be honest, TDKR has many faults and Andy mentioned them all. I mean, honestly, too much people, too less time to tell the whole tale. And although I hated the split of the last Potter-Movie into two, it could have been an option to make TDKR more accessible. I really need to watch it again. In fact I want to watch all three movies in a row to see how they work as a whole.
To catch up with Andy's rating, I would give BB a 5/5, TDK 4/5 and TDKR 3.5/5 - which is still a good rating. There wasn't a decrease in quality of the movie, I just feel the first and second work better as a movie. As mentioned above, too much story put into too less playing time. The mood Nolan created was awesome though, despite being a superhero-movie it totally felt real, depressing and emotional. Again I would've wished for more time to allow the characters to develop and give more insight into the psychological side of things, but well, it was still far better than any of the Batman stuff pre-Nolan.

I guess there will be another one with JGL taking over - I don't understand the hype about him, but it would be the logical choice regarding the ending of TDKR. I'm only glad that I take it as solid fact Nolan and Bale won't be doing another sequel. Not that I would complain Bale playig Batman, but as I said in the beginning - it is a great TRIlogy, there shouldn't be another one as a direct follow-up in my opinion ...

Michael*, on 30 July 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

I was pleasantly surprised too by Anne Hathaway, not least because I'm not usually a fan. Her presence in the early going gave the trilogy it's only real dose of outrageous camp, and in general, I thought she was really rather magnificent. I've never understood previous moviemakers' obsession with giving Catwoman weird supernatural powers, so I'd take Anne's portrayal as an antiheroine grifter disguised as a socialite over any other, even Michelle Pfeiffer's.

Oh, and a special mention for Gary Oldman (which I'm sure he'll be very thrilled about), since he's seemingly gone under the radar. I thought he turned in a superb performance. What really struck me was that his voice was very different than in the previous two movies - he made Gordon older and more weathered, and it felt completely natural.

Anne as catwoman - I was surprised by the choice at first. I really really adore Anne, but I wasn't sure she would fit into the role. But she was perfect in my opinion. I would've loved to see more of her.

And thank you for mentioning Gary, Michael! Since I'm all biased about him (being one of the greatest actors around imo) it's good to see another one being completely taken by his developing of Comm. Gordon

[Cult Icon]

Spoiler

  

[cherrybomb]

TDKR for me, was good in normal movie standards...but not so much for Nolan. He's done much much much better in his career. Both batman begins and the dark knight were better than this movie.

[Socio]

I liked the movie. I think its good ending of the whole story. The creation of the Cat Woman by Anne Hathaway is what I liked the most. I think the movie has good balance beetwen the story and the all of those visual effects. Its quite long movie nad still I had fun of watching it. I like also the idea of puting more of Bruce Wayne (his emotion, drama) in front instead of typical Bat Man actions. All those viewers who had seen 2 past parts should like it.

[Cult Icon]

cherrybomb, on 03 August 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

TDKR for me, was good in normal movie standards...but not so much for Nolan. He's done much much much better in his career. Both batman begins and the dark knight were better than this movie.

Then perhaps these excellent storyboards I just found from "The Dark Knight" will catch your interest.  It illustrates Alfred's story :-)

[Cult Icon]

CarMELita, on 01 August 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

So, here am I, paying my tribute to a great Trilogy.

To be honest, TDKR has many faults and Andy mentioned them all. I mean, honestly, too much people, too less time to tell the whole tale. And although I hated the split of the last Potter-Movie into two, it could have been an option to make TDKR more accessible. I really need to watch it again. In fact I want to watch all three movies in a row to see how they work as a whole.
To catch up with Andy's rating, I would give BB a 5/5, TDK 4/5 and TDKR 3.5/5 - which is still a good rating. There wasn't a decrease in quality of the movie, I just feel the first and second work better as a movie. As mentioned above, too much story put into too less playing time. The mood Nolan created was awesome though, despite being a superhero-movie it totally felt real, depressing and emotional. Again I would've wished for more time to allow the characters to develop and give more insight into the psychological side of things, but well, it was still far better than any of the Batman stuff pre-Nolan.

I have all three films on my desktop

The third movie didn't work well enough with the first two in my view- still an entertaining watch though.  To me, Nolan's Batman ended with TDK.  I could probably write a short essay on why I think it ended with part 2.  I could probably recreate my own version....

Bruce Wayne is fundamentally a conservative/right wing figure and a man from the 19th Century rather than the 20th/21st.  It is clear, from BB,  that he is the embodiment of noblesse oblige, nobility, total self-sacrifice, and knighthood.  Part 3 should have continued this theme in a more complete way.  

[Michael*]

Cult Icon, on 30 July 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, what would be your rating out of 5?

I re-watched bits of Batman Begins and it helped me understand The Dark Knight Rises better.  The two movies are very, very much related, and Nolan uses references throughout the two.  He really did design part 3 as integral portion of the trilogy, and it was less stand-alone than I anticipated on my July 20th review.  I actually enjoy 3 more for that reason, but not enough to raise my rating.

BB, TDK- 4.5  
TDKR- 3.5

At the moment, I'm hovering somewhere between 3.5 and 4, but I think I'd like to see it again before making a definitive judgement. The idea of TDKR being better than TDK (a movie so good that even Eric Roberts couldn't ruin it) was obviously a complete non-starter, so by no means did I go into it with unrealistic expectations - it's just that I'd built myself up so much and was so fixated on being determined to enjoy it that I'm not sure I was fully 'in the moment' when I saw it, if that makes any sense whatsoever. One more viewing should help no end.

BB - 4.5
TDK - 5
TDKR - 3.5/4-ish

[Psylocke]

On a scale of 1-5, I'd give it a 4.5.  My only big complaint was that it was hard to understand what Bane and/or Batman was saying every now and then, but the rest I thought was amazing.  I want to go see it again.  I didn't have that excited feeling to want to see it again with the first two even though they were quite good too.  There is just something about this one...

[cherrybomb]

As a fan of the comics, I can't help but feel disappointed with the direction that Nolan went with the Batman/Catwoman relationship.  Part of the film did a great job portraying it...the love/hate relationship between them.  But that kiss before Batman goes off to save Gotham, un. necessary. and entirely cheesy.  As was seeing them on a table together in Venice at the end ( I think it was Venice, I forget). WHY? Just WHYYY?! He turned it into a happy love story, and Nolan has gotten it right for the most part as far as the portrayal of the Villains in Batman go. But I was disappointed in this.

So I've liked Hathaway, up until TDKR. She was a decent Catwoman, no complaints. But her acting as Selina Kyle? . Cheesy, unnatural, and not so believable (to me anyway).

A lot of the time lines didn't make sense (re watch it and you'll see what I mean) I watched it 3x to catch everything I missed.  Also there were just some entirely lazy moments.  Nolan can do better and he knows it.

Anyone know how it is that Batman had time to talk to JGL's character while he was troubled to stop the bomb in time?

I'm a very very big fan of Nolan's Batman movies, but more so the comics. Without a doubt I think Nolan's trilogy has been the best adaption of Batman there has been. All I'm saying is, this film could have been loads better. It just felt so mediocre.  I've noticed that the masses (ie the people that don't particularly care for the comics but just want a good film and jumped on the wagon after TDK) loved TDKR (but of course they were prepared to love it no matter what) and it seemed that a lot of Batman comic fans were less than thrilled with this last film.

Even with all said and done though, the film did have some extraordinary moments. And like I said in a previous post, very good movie in normal standards--not impressive in Nolan standards.

As always, Caine was a stand out. JGL was impressive. Hardy... I never really expected the mask to take away from Hardy's performance so much. But I have to say, the critics are right--it was hard to see much of Hardy through his costume.  I did love his character though of course.

[ibizzza9]

One of the best movie of 2012

[Cult Icon]

In retrospect, I'm kind of disappointed at the turns the movie took and its overall lower quality.  My vision of Bruce Wayne's story is considerably different.  But I viewed the film once, and w/o really watching BB/TDK closely until after my experience.   I had forgotten about the movies, so I went to the theater only equipped with my memories.  So at the time, I was expecting a big, expansive film that matched TDK/BB in quality.

I have realized that the pivot point of the Trilogy is right here in TDK:



Bruce essentially chooses to either:

1.  Fight to the end as Batman with "All (his) strength, all (his) resources, all (his) moral authority "
2.  Find a successor to take up his mantle- in this case Harvey Dent.  Retire and marry Rachel.

...Under the condition that Gotham is always protected by a 'super', especially able force like the Batman or Dent.  This force defends Gotham against a particularly special evil like joker, league of shadows, scarecrow, organized crime, etc. that are capable of circumventing societal institutions and laws.  And this 'Super' entity is to be eternally prepared to intervene against the type of chaos that the GPD and city governments can't handle on their own.

This is the spirit of noblesse oblige..

So we know how that ended up.  I find the turns of TDKR and Bruce's choice to be a recluse as being inconsistent with the earlier situation and his commitment with protecting Gotham.  His obsession w/Rachel is also a weak portion of the trilogy...He can endure all sorts of things, except 'move on'...

Michael*, on 07 August 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

At the moment, I'm hovering somewhere between 3.5 and 4, but I think I'd like to see it again before making a definitive judgement. The idea of TDKR being better than TDK (a movie so good that even Eric Roberts couldn't ruin it) was obviously a complete non-starter, so by no means did I go into it with unrealistic expectations - it's just that I'd built myself up so much and was so fixated on being determined to enjoy it that I'm not sure I was fully 'in the moment' when I saw it, if that makes any sense whatsoever. One more viewing should help no end.

BB - 4.5
TDK - 5
TDKR - 3.5/4-ish

[Socio]

Cult Icon, on 05 August 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

CarMELita, on 01 August 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

So, here am I, paying my tribute to a great Trilogy.

To be honest, TDKR has many faults and Andy mentioned them all. I mean, honestly, too much people, too less time to tell the whole tale. And although I hated the split of the last Potter-Movie into two, it could have been an option to make TDKR more accessible. I really need to watch it again. In fact I want to watch all three movies in a row to see how they work as a whole.
To catch up with Andy's rating, I would give BB a 5/5, TDK 4/5 and TDKR 3.5/5 - which is still a good rating. There wasn't a decrease in quality of the movie, I just feel the first and second work better as a movie. As mentioned above, too much story put into too less playing time. The mood Nolan created was awesome though, despite being a superhero-movie it totally felt real, depressing and emotional. Again I would've wished for more time to allow the characters to develop and give more insight into the psychological side of things, but well, it was still far better than any of the Batman stuff pre-Nolan.

I have all three films on my desktop

The third movie didn't work well enough with the first two in my view- still an entertaining watch though.  To me, Nolan's Batman ended with TDK.  I could probably write a short essay on why I think it ended with part 2.  I could probably recreate my own version....

Bruce Wayne is fundamentally a conservative/right wing figure and a man from the 19th Century rather than the 20th/21st.  It is clear, from BB,  that he is the embodiment of noblesse oblige, nobility, total self-sacrifice, and knighthood.  Part 3 should have continued this theme in a more complete way.  

Well I think the story is kept  that way. For me this third part is like Bruce Wayne,  the capitalist is going against the revolution. Its very interesting motive for me. One of the best part is when the peoples court can sentenced defendant on exile, or the dead by exile. Bat Man represents the rules of the law against to rules of social justice of his opponents.

[wijnboerinnetje]

Am I the only one thinking this is actually pretty funny?

[Cult Icon]

Rejected scar cast for Bane's back :

Spoiler

There was also a deleted scene explaining why Bane had the mask

Spoiler

GQ: What!? You haven't seen the movie yet?
Lindy Hemming: It's not out in England yet, but the other thing that you should have seen during that sequence is him being injured in his youth. So one of the fundamental things about his costume is that he has this scar from the back injury. Even if he hasn't got the bulletproof vest on, he still has to wear the waist belt and the braces. In that scene in the prison, where he's learning to fight the same way Batman learned to fight, he's wearing an early version of his waist belt. It's showing support, but it's not the finished one he eventually wears. He's also wearing an early version of his gas mask, all glued together.
GQ: I remember one scene where we see his face covered in bandages, is this what you're referring to?
Lindy Hemming: Well, if you look at the film, unless they've cut it—and I'm sure they haven't—there's a whole early section for Tom Hardy where he's fighting and being taunted by people. He's got chains on him, and he's standing on a wooden thing while people are attacking him. And in that scene, he's wearing a much more ragged, primitive version of the mask.
GQ: I think that Bane scene must've been cut...
Lindy Hemming: Well that's an awful shame, but I suppose you have to cut things. I won't elaborate on it too much, because it isn't in the film, but there was another section that showed you why he had the mask and where it came from.


Read More http://www.gq.com/en...l#ixzz23Nbib5Dm


Elements from the script/story:

"



Bane balanced atop upright wooden poles as the League's brutal instructors battered him with hard oak staffs, trying to knock him off his perch. Bare-chested, the scars on his back a visible reminder of his past, Bane dodged and deflected the blows, refusing to fall.

A crude mask--an early prototype--hid his face.

With pride, Talia observedBane's indomitable spirit, yet Ra's turned away."

The Dark Knight Rises Art:




Re-dubbed vs. Original Prologue



------

Villains of the Trilogy

Joker 5/5
2-Face  4/5
Raz  3.5/5
Bane 3.5/5
Scarecrow 3/5
Falcone 2/5
Maroni 2/5
Daggett 1/5
Lau 0/5
Talia 0/5



French Trailer, complete with French Bane:
Lol, 'cyber satan'


This fan-made trailer- made in May 2012- Is superior to all officially released trailers:  

Influenced by Malick, of course..

[CarMELita]

wijnboerinnetje, on 11 August 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

Am I the only one thinking this is actually pretty funny?

[Cult Icon]

bumping this just to say: I hope I get to watch it a second time.

[Cult Icon]

Now that I have a copy of Batman Begins blu-ray rip, who would like to see me take and post a collection of screenshots from all 3 movies?  I've always wanted to do this, but I lacked the necessary (full) motivation...


<Naturally, Spoilers>

----

NVM, Collection 1: I will post more if I am motivated by requests from others on this forum:

1. The Opera house where Bruce Wayne's parents are killed.



2. Bruce exploring the underground cavern



3. Batman falling out of a three story window, injured, poisoned and on fire.



4.  Bruce initiating his first communication with Gordon.  ...while holding a stapler to the back of his head.



5.  Bruce robbing his own company while "traveling the world, to understand the criminal mind and to conquer his fear"



6.  Bruce being escorted to prison.



7.  Bruce Wayne throwing out his drink during a fundraising event.  He's a teetotaler.



8. The Joker shoots a police officer who tries to move his truck.


9. Police convoy, carrying Harvey Dent, approach a burning firetruck.



10.  Harvey Dent approaches an ambulance after a shooting.  He's intent on questioning the man inside.



11.  South Korean smugglers pilot a US cargo plane.  They rendezvous with Bruce's ship.



12.  Alfred descends into an underground, makeshift lair.  On the surface, it's a shipping container.

[Michael*]

Cult Icon, on 12 September 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Now that I have a copy of Batman Begins blu-ray rip, who would like to see me take and post a collection of screenshots from all 3 movies?  I've always wanted to do this, but I lacked the necessary (full) motivation...

Sounds good to me.