84 replies to this topic

[cherrybomb]

Hmmm not that it means much but so far critic reviews for 'DKR' on rotten tomatoes - 84% , dark knight was at 94% by the end, and batman begins 85% critic reviews, and reviews in general make me laugh. All batman comics fans know, that batman begins was one epic movie. Even better than the dark knight, as far as my opinion goes.

I can hardly wait for the dark knight rises. The day can't come soon enough.

[Michael*]

^I think people are just generally skeptical of reboots. If I'm remembering it right 'Begins' was relatively successful in theaters, but It was only when the DVD release came out that people really started to buy into Nolan's take on the story and get genuinely excited for the sequel. Had the first Nolan movie not indirectly followed in the footsteps of the Tim Burton films as well as two iffy (to put it politely) Joel Schumacher efforts, I honestly think it would have torn up the box office as much as 'The Dark Knight' did.

[Cult Icon]

^
I never paid any attention to Batman Begins until my best friend brought the disk over and told me that 'I got to see this..'.  The poor reputation of the earlier films and my general ambivalence towards superheroes turned my attention away.


I think that critics consensus indicators have some value- a 70-100% score is in the 'safe territory' for me.  I've liked films (for instance prometheus, which is at 73%) that didn't score high.  Likewise, I've disliked many films with +85% (like every 'Bourne'/ lord of the rings/etc film)  Also, there will be 'devil's advocate' or niche type reviews that are directed towards a particular audience and will thereby drop the average.  

Right now TDKR is at 85 %- 35 positive 6 negative

[cherrybomb]

Batman begins doesn't get the credit it deserves. I agree it wasn't as popular while in theatres, but more so after the fact. But I still feel that it's overlooked incredibly. The dark knight was of course an amazing film too, but there were several factors as to why that's the film the Nolan-batman bandwagoner's decided to jump on.

and I agree cult icon, I usually refer to Rotten tomatoes to see what the general consensus of a film is, there are times when they're misleading--like all review sites. I think TDKR will only shoot up in ratings.

[Cult Icon]

^
The consensus ratings are a popularity test.  It's a vote rather than a grade.  

My ratings

TDK- 4.5/5
Batman Begins- 4.5/5
The Prestige- 4/5
Inception- 3.5/5

Overall, Nolan's Batman is the only action/summer blockbuster that has worked for me.  All the other action franchises- Spiderman, Iron Man, Superman, Bourne, Lord of the Rings, X-men, etc. never really stimulated my interest.  :-p

[cherrybomb]

I think for me...

Batman Begins 5/5
TDK 4.5/5
The Prestige 4/5
Memento 4/5
Inception 3.5/5

I'm a big fan of Insomnia too, I'm a sucker for Pacino and Williams

[Cult Icon]

^

Very nice   I saw Memento myself but that was a decade ago....!  

I have just discovered 4 officially released clips (spoilers, of course) from the film.  Anne is featured prominently in two.


Edit: Some funny youtube comments that I've seen:

-Life Goals:

1. Live until July 20
2. Watch Dark Knight Rises


- "I have the feeling that this is not the film of the last decade, but rather the film of the next half-century..."

LOL!

[Michael*]

If anyone should happen to be around and/or interested, footage and cast interviews from the London red carpet event are being shown live via YouTube as we speak. Nothing's actually happened yet but surprise surprise, it's raining.

http://www.youtube.c...ture=inp-lt-bat

[Michael*]

So the red carpet event is decidedly run-of-the-mill so far, but I have managed to learn two minor secrets that I wasn't aware of beforehand.

Spoiler

- Cillian Murphy will reprise his role as the Scarecrow.
- The truth about Harvey Dent's death in TDK may or may not be revealed.

[Cult Icon]

Michael*, on 18 July 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

So the red carpet event is decidedly run-of-the-mill so far, but I have managed to learn two minor secrets that I wasn't aware of beforehand.

Spoiler

- Cillian Murphy will reprise his role as the Scarecrow.
- The truth about Harvey Dent's death in TDK may or may not be revealed.

Yea, I knew both.  

Spoiler

It's probably a cameo, don't you think?  The Scarecrow was in TDK, but only for one isolated scene.  I think Harvey's relation to TDKR is definite:  It's in the trailers (a memorial service to Dent) and there are officially released stills of Bane holding up Dent's picture.  I suppose that he's going to embarrass the city govt' publicly.  Also, since Gordon was involved in covering up Dent's crimes, he may be at risk too...........Indeed, teaser trailer 1 depicted a critically injured commissioner Gordon....!  

[Cult Icon]

Batman Begins

85%- 7.7/10

261 critics

The Dark Knight

94%- 8.4/10

282 critics

The Dark Knight Rises

87%- 8.2/10

151 critics (so far)

Spoiler

  Interesting Gif I found:  But I'm not sure if it's entirely made from officially released components.

[Mirror's Venus]

BEAUTIFUL PERFECT MOVIE!


I was honestly blown away at how amazing this movie was. It was perfect in almost every sense of the way. I don't know how fans would not be pleased. In my opinion it has surpassed the first two in the trilogy.

[Cult Icon]

Leslie, It's very nice to hear that you had a blast.    I enjoyed the film myself.  I believe that it was an extraordinary film in certain ways, and less so in others.  It certainly breaks new ground, especially in the techniques of the film arts.  The 'disaster' element was very inspired.

TDKR felt like a movie with 6 hours worth of ideas, but squeezed into 3 hours.  So many ministories, and I believe that TDKR was ambitious to an extent that I've never seen before.  It was definitely non-conventional in format, and experimental on the part of the director.

The tone was just..considerably different from 1 and 2.  I do wonder  a bit about how my views will change if I see this film a second time.  As of now, I think it tried to do too much in a limited time frame (yes, 2:45 is too little for a movie this big), and the storylines- which were legion and involving nearly a dozen characters, were not individually fleshed out.  I believe that quality was sacrificed for quantity.


The Dark Knight Rises

87%- 8.0/10

207 critics (so far)

[Cult Icon]

I saw the film, my immediate thoughts:    *  (warning, no blatant spoilers but of course, one's inferential abilities may be stimulated. )

- If Batman Begins was a Bildungsroman, The Dark Knight would be a Crime epic, and The Dark Knight Rises would be a disaster film.- as in, a film about an apocalyptic situation.   I rewatched the Joker/Dent scenes from TDK, and refreshed myself with a little bit of BB the day before.  TDK  has a special capacity for instilling a triple sense of horror, uncertainty, and fascination for its entire duration.  BB is the best reboot of a superhero and story about a superhero.


Batman Begins- 4.5/5
The Dark Knight- 4.5/5
The Dark Knight Rises- 3.5/5 whole film, 2.5/5 as a story, 6/5 as an action spectacle

-Now, onto Part 3
- This film is 1/4 about Bruce Wayne, 1/4 about the rest of the cast. 1/2 about spectacle and 'disasters'.   So it doesn't revolve around the villain like TDK did.  I didn't like the format at all.  I like films that revolve more around flesh and blood in depth rather than just around spectacles.

-  But The 'Man of Steel' 2013 Teaser trailer was attached to it and is inspiring- good things may come out of that.  High productive values and imagery.  It's narrated by Kevin Costner, who plays Superman's adoptive father.  Good teaser, and 'Man of Steel' resembles a bildungsroman like 'Batman Begins'.  Henry Cavill is the new superman.
-  As far as ratings go, I'll give this a 3.5/5 overall.  As a pure story, just a 2.5/5.  I'm starting to understand the rotten tomatoes now- it's the weakest 'story' of the trilogy.  The narration, the plot turns, the characters just aren't there this time around.  But, as an action spectacle- it's a 6/5.  There is simply no other film quite like it.  Action junkies will see some the best action...ever.  It's innovative in this respect.  The scale and scope of what you will see in this film are just simply beyond Part 2 or any other film I can think of.  It's worth watching as an action spectacle, and preferably in IMAX.  
-  The film is wall to wall action intermixed with dialogue, and it's very difficult to completely process. It's just so....much.  So many characters, so many events going on.

-I liked the first hour a lot more than the second and the third.  Anne Hathaway shows a lot of promise as catwoman in the early scenes, and I thought she did well with sub-par material.  The second and third hour is where....let me..for comparison's sake, call it "the Institutional imperative' ...went out of control.  There are a few good scenes, but it's mixed with too many 'noisy' and muddy ones.  I think the short form for this situation is the term 'bloated...'    But the sheer quantity of intricate setpieces is such that I have never seen before, and that smaller bit was a fascination of its own.

-My favorite theme in the film, and favorite parts were those that revolved around the theme of Bruce Wayne being physically and psychologically damaged and the life & mores of the Catwoman.  If the first 2 hours of the film were about that and about that greatly expanded in depth and length....then this movie would of had great potential.  

On towards the more negative.

-Christian Bale's early scenes are solid, but he was given a below average script.  There was a sense (I felt it, at least), that Bale didn't put as much effort as he did in Batman Begins and was just going through the motions.  He could have done much better, even with the problematic script.  

Spoiler

The whole thing with him being a recluse for eight years just wasn't believable. Nor was his transition from recluse to Batman.

  Bale's best performance is still in Batman Begins.  BB was his movie.  

-The narration, themes, and dialogue are weaker this time around.  While Part 1 and Part 2 gave plenty for one to talk and think about, Part 3 lacks that sort of emotional resonance.  Much of the dialogue, and action are unnecessary.  As a story, it fails in my view.  It fails for me because I lost belief that these characters were actually real and I lost belief that this 'universe' had some basis in reality.  In contrast, Part 1 and Part 2 succeeded in sustaining this semi-reality.  And that's the vital point, and what separated Nolan's Batman from the cluster of competing superhero franchises.  If the film fails here, it just fails....that's how it is.

Now, towards my opinions of the characters (not really a spoiler, but I'll put a spoiler tag on them anyway:)

Spoiler

-There are too many characters- and many of them are unnecessary.  There was too much dispersion of dialogue- There should have been few outside of Bane, Batman & co., Catwoman.  If there were to be more characters, they should have been strong characters, not failures.  Anne did well in the early scenes, but her irrelevance in hour 2 and 3 were no fault of her own.

- I think that Tom Hardy's Bane, Blake and the Miranda Tate character were failures.  Miranda Tate and Blake should not have been in the film, and they were both a waste of movie space.  Miranda Tate was just....terrible.  Poor line delivery.  She should have been deleted.   Blake is everywhere in this film, and the fulcrum where much of it turns.  But he's a lame character, and another waste of space.  The scarecrow was back for a minor role, and his cameo was also totally unnecessary.

-Bane is the most disappointing of all.  Tom Hardy's intelligent voice is simply shrouded and distorted underneath the muzzle.  But the words that come out of Bane's mouth are not much better.  Bane wasn't the scary, super-smart baddie that he was advertised as. Real spoiler:  

Spoiler

Sure, he was the 'NCO (Non-commissioned officer) or Sergeant) of the enemy troop, always leading from the front.  But where was the strategic genius?  The audience deserved to know and to understand Bane the man.  Bane should have been complex, but instead he was just another 'fanatic', a nutjob, a slave to his own emotions, a cog in the machine, an unthinking ideologue,  not the mastermind on top of the food chain.  Bane's backstory sucked, and sucked hugely.  Bane's dialogue was cringe-inducing, and lame is a good adjective to describe 'the' Bane!...

Spoiler

And the prologue...My goodness, they re-did Bane's dialogue in the plane scene and it comes off as much worse than the original...you'd have to see it to believe.  It doesn't even sound like Hardy's Bane anymore, and Bane's voice reverts back to normal after the prologue! So stick to the prologue I posted earlier on this thread...!

But Indeed, Bane's fighting skills were scary, but he was just another thug with the intellectual depth of a puddle to me.  He was a standard-issue movie monster, nothing more.  

-Nevertheless, TDKR is worth watching once, I wouldn't want to spend time to seeing the entire 2:45 thing again.  I do, however, want to review the better scenes (top 40%) of the film.  

Spoiler

The Broker/Dealer scene and the chase, for instance, was outstanding action. I also liked seeing Bruce & Selina together.  

So I think I'll pick up a cam rip sometime.....For what's it worth, I had a good time! (including writing this..)

Here's another, more heartfelt thought:

not really a spoiler:

Spoiler

I like the idea of Bruce Wayne falling for Selina Kyle, and finding common ground in spite of their differences.  And emerging as better people in the end.  I'd have preferred if it was more about that.  But this film wasn't about the drama, but rather the action.  I also wanted to see a Bruce Wayne struggle, where he puts himself together and 'rises' from the darkness.  Repairs himself slowly, through body and mind.  This was, of course, in the film, but I didn't like the way it was executed or the actions that were entailed in order for Bruce to 'Rise'!.  Also, Bane...I was expected somebody similar to Brando's 'Colonel Kurtz' from the great film- Apocalypse Now.  Hardy and Nolan, unfortunately- did not deliver.

[Cult Icon]

In hindsight, I have the impression that Nolan & co. were certainly influenced a bit by modern sieges such as Warsaw 1944.  There are events depicted in the film that resembled what happened there.  Bane & the league of shadows have a superficial parallel in the Dirlewanger Brigade, an extremist lunatic fringe of the SS...Both were composed of mercenaries, criminals, mental patients, poors, and other such characters.


Bane himself resembles Dirlewanger in several ways.

http://en.wikipedia....kar_Dirlewanger.




If you've seen the film, you'll know where the three slides and the bolded fit in....!

"During the 63-day battle for Warsaw, the A K suffered about 15,000 dead
or about one-third of its initial force. Civilian casualties are estimated at
200,000 dead, most of whom were murdered by SS troops in the early days of
the uprising or killed in the bombardments. About 25 per cent of Warsaw's
buildings were destroyed in the fighting. German losses were about 16,000 killed
and 9,000 wounded, which works out at a casualty rate of about 50 per cent."

"Once the captured A K soldiers and the civilian population were removed
from the city environs, the SS set about the systematic destruction of Warsaw.
Hitler's intent was that the city would simply disappear from the face of
Europe - the only time in World War II that the Germans actually tried this
on a major city. Special German sapper units were sent in to demolish the
city with explosives and flame-throwers. By J a n u a r y 1945, the Germans had
managed to destroy 85 per cent of Warsaw's buildings and structures."

Commentary:





Note how the soldier is standing on top of the armored vehicle just like Bane.

[wijnboerinnetje]

Finally saw it!
I'm very curious to see how the spin-off etc rumors play out?

[Cult Icon]

wijnboerinnetje, on 29 July 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

Finally saw it!
I'm very curious to see how the spin-off etc rumors play out?

Spoiler

  I think that 'Robin' becomes the new batman, so in essence 'Batman' becomes an everlasting institution, a legend, an ideal, and a symbol.  I don't think that a spinoff is implied, at least not from Nolan. I saw a bit more of BB in this weekend, and the themes tie together.

From BB:  Raz al gul:  "If you make  yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you....then you become something else entirely.  A Legend, Mr. Wayne"

From TDKR: Bruce's hallucination: Bruce: "I watched you die"

Raz al gul: "There are many forms of immortality"


----

Bruce: "A hero can be anyone, even a man who puts his coat over a young boy's shoulders, just to let him know that the world hasn't ended"

[wijnboerinnetje]

Cult Icon, on 30 July 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

wijnboerinnetje, on 29 July 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

Finally saw it!
I'm very curious to see how the spin-off etc rumors play out?

Spoiler

  I think that 'Robin' becomes the new batman, so in essence 'Batman' becomes an everlasting institution, a legend, an ideal, and a symbol.  I don't think that a spinoff is implied, at least not from Nolan. I saw a bit more of BB in this weekend, and the themes tie together.

From BB:  Raz al gul:  "If you make  yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you....then you become something else entirely.  A Legend, Mr. Wayne"

From TDKR: Bruce's hallucination: Bruce: "I watched you die"

Raz al gul: "There are many forms of immortality"


----

Bruce: "A hero can be anyone, even a man who puts his coat over a young boy's shoulders, just to let him know that the world hasn't ended"

Oh god, how bad I want that to be true!
I don't know howt to insert a SPOILER soo:

Quote

That's not for me to say," Gordon-Levitt said regarding a possible follow-up. "I think if you see the movie, it's very clear, it's conclusive and it's a great ending. It's not one of those movies that's just like, 'Well, we didn't quite know how to end it.' 'Cause those happen. They call it a trilogy, but it's not really a trilogy. It's just another movie to make more money. This is a trilogy, and this is the end of it."
Oldman was equally emphatic about this being the end of Christopher Nolan's Bat journey.
"When he says he doesn't know, he's dealing — he's wheeling and dealing. They all go, 'Is there going to be a third Batman?' and he goes, 'I don't know,' and you go, that means he's actually working on it. But I think he's pretty emphatic, isn't he?" Oldman said, though he did imagine possible scenarios in which a Nolan's version of Gotham could continue.
"Unless the studio — they must be in a real quandary. In a way, it must be hard for them if they want to make a fourth. Would he come on as a producer with his overseeing it and story and then put a director in the driving seat? I guess that is a possible scenario, but I think he's done with it. I think it's true when he says, 'I'm done. There's no more. There's no more for me.' And as much as he is the man, you do get sick of it. You know, I spoke to Emma [Thomas], the producer, his wife. 'Oh, we never want to see a Batman thing again,' [she said]. You do get to a point where you go, you've created a Frankenstein, a monster you want to kill it."
Thankfully, Nolan didn't literally kill it (Gotham or Bruce Wayne), so there's always a tiny possibility for a fourth. For her part, Catwoman Anne Hathaway said she'd follow the director anywhere, though she didn't think it another film was terribly likely, either. Or that she should ask for one.
"That would be greedy," she said. "I would go wherever Christopher Nolan asked me to, and I would wear any suit he asked me, and I would play anything he wanted me to do, but it would be greedy of me to ask for more than I got with this one."

[Cult Icon]

^

Personally...If I were to change this film, I'd

Spoiler

make sure that Bruce Wayne dies in the end. It's the most appropriate way to end the trilogy and to end the themes that first emerged in BB.  But the 'batman' as an institution thing is good, and that part should stay.  

The ending comes across as a setup for a new director to take up the new movies.

[Michael*]

So I've finally seen it! Broadly speaking, I had a blast and the running time flew by in an instant, though it fell short of my absolute best case scenario through a few minor irritations. The script was, of course, considerably less airtight than previous efforts and with the benefit of hindsight, I think perhaps the final part of the story could have been split into two movies (ala Harry Potter and Twilight). Certain scenes felt in desperate need of more room to breathe and I would have loved to have seen parts of the plot fleshed out a bit more. I was especially hoping for a couple of Rorschach-esque scenes involving Selina in Blackgate, which unfortunately never materialised.

On the plus side, they really nailed Bane. I thought he inspired a very unique kind of terror and the fanatical devotion of his followers was really quite scary. He had far too few scenes with Batman to create that essential rapport between 'arch-enemies', but I was completely drawn in whenever he was onscreen, and his meticulous planning and cultured demeanour made for an interesting contrast to his explosive brutality and imposing frame. The fight between he and Batman on the sewer walkway was without doubt one of my top three moments of the trilogy, and they had his mask carry some importance, which I was glad about. Also, the fuss about his voice was a complete non-story, I can't remember missing a single line.

I was pleasantly surprised too by Anne Hathaway, not least because I'm not usually a fan. Her presence in the early going gave the trilogy it's only real dose of outrageous camp, and in general, I thought she was really rather magnificent. I've never understood previous moviemakers' obsession with giving Catwoman weird supernatural powers, so I'd take Anne's portrayal as an antiheroine grifter disguised as a socialite over any other, even Michelle Pfeiffer's.

Oh, and a special mention for Gary Oldman (which I'm sure he'll be very thrilled about), since he's seemingly gone under the radar. I thought he turned in a superb performance. What really struck me was that his voice was very different than in the previous two movies - he made Gordon older and more weathered, and it felt completely natural.

Random thought regarding the end bit...

Spoiler

Could it be possible that the 'bomb disposal' sequence at the end was designed as a slight nod to the Adam West version of Batman? As soon as I saw the shape of the nuke in the back of the truck, this particular scene from the ludicrous but wildly entertaining 60s TV movie was all I could think about...

But anyway, getting back to the point. I wouldn't say it was perfect by any means, but there was some fantastic stuff in there as well. Now, how about Joel Schumacher to direct the inevitable reboot? I mean, what's the worst that could happen?